HPFP drops mid range

bobbykolev · 02-26-2021, 03:23 PM

Hi guys. I have a 435xi MPPK DINAN stage 2 with Dinan carbon cold air intake, custom downpipe, VRSF chargepipe, MASATA boost pipe, MASATA UHD stepped cooler and Mosselman turbo oil thermostat.
Yesterday i was at the dyno and we got 382 hp at the crank. Not a bad number but i didnt like the power delivery and I wanted a custom tune. So we managed to get 330 whp with his map on a bypass mode. When we tried to use stage 1 Dinan the could not keep up with the fuel so he said that he is going to work some more on his tune to get araound 420-440 HP to the crank. With the new flash the car started to lose power around 3.5-4k RPM. We tried different maps but the result was the same. We flashed the map that we got 330whp and the result was the same... not enough fuel. After that with the stock map the car had no issue at all... After few more hours we could not solve the problem. We noticed that around mid range the fuel drops from 150-200 bar to 60 - 5th gear full power . The car works fine till we try to dyno at 5 gear, its the same on the road... Can anyone help?

thejeremyman9 · 02-26-2021, 03:41 PM

Why are you mixing whp and crank hp numbers? What correction factor did you use to go from whp to crank hp?

I am assuming you are talking about the older Dinan piggyback? or are you talking about a dinan flash? The interaction between your custom tune and the Dinan isnt clear.

I am assuming your tuner was logging - post the logs.

In any case, if your HPFP pressure was crashing you already know what the problem is. Are you running pump gas? Whats the ethanol % in Bulgaria? How much boost are you running? Whats the octane?

I'm not sure what kind of help you are looking for.

bobbykolev · 02-26-2021, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

Why are you mixing whp and crank hp numbers? What correction factor did you use to go from whp to crank hp?

I am assuming you are talking about the older Dinan piggyback? or are you talking about a dinan flash? The interaction between your custom tune and the Dinan isnt clear.

I am assuming your tuner was logging - post the logs.

In any case, if your HPFP pressure was crashing you already know what the problem is. Are you running pump gas? Whats the ethanol % in Bulgaria? How much boost are you running? Whats the octane?

I'm not sure what kind of help you are looking for.

I am using both because i dont remember the numbers from all the runs. Dyno makes the calculations by itself. The power loss ia around 25-28%.
I am talking about the old piggyback. He made the custom tune on the stock ECU.
I am runing SHELL V POWER RACING which is 100 RON
The boost i think was from 1 to 1.2 bar.
He noticed that when he make it to 1 bar on live data we see that the car make 1.2 bar on the bypass mode on the DINAN tune. We took it completely off the car and the result was the same...

thejeremyman9 · 02-26-2021, 05:00 PM

That power loss seems excessively high but not relevant to your issue.

The main question that still remains is what the ethanol % of your fuel is. 1.2 bar is about 17.5 psi which should be OK for pump gas (0-10% ethanol) but its getting up there in boost. People can usually run that much though without crashing the HPFP. I have gotten up to 16.5-17 psi with E30 without a HPFP crash, but that's at the limit really.

If you are overboosting it seems there is a problem with the tune or a hardware problem. You shouldn't be exceeding boost targets by 2-3 psi without throttle closure or other protection kicking in. I assume you are correctly looking at MAP boost and not pre throttle? Pre throttle boost can/will be over target if there is throttle closure.

It's possible you also have a HPFP problem, but its mechanical, so quite unlikely. LPFP issues are similarly uncommon and the LPFP limit is much higher than HPFP.

I would probably need to see a datalog to provide any more insight.

bobbykolev · 02-26-2021, 05:27 PM

No idea what the ethanol % is... At the gas station when filling up the car i noticed that there is E10 written on the pistol... 1 - 1.2 bar is the turbo boost.
I have also noticed that when i ran stage 2 /before the custom tune/ around 160-170 km at full throttle the car loses power completely. I used those cleaning products which are for fuel injection system changed the spark plugs with NGK 97506 0.20” gapped and i think this problem disappeared after few hundred km.
Could it be a problem with fuel injectors or igntion coils?

thejeremyman9 · 02-26-2021, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobbykolev

No idea what the ethanol % is... At the gas station when filling up the car i noticed that there is E10 written on the pistol... 1 - 1.2 bar is the turbo boost.
I have also noticed that when i ran stage 2 /before the custom tune/ around 160-170 km at full throttle the car loses power completely. I used those cleaning products which are for fuel injection system changed the spark plugs with NGK 97506 0.20” gapped and i think this problem disappeared after few hundred km.
Could it be a problem with fuel injectors or igntion coils?

You should not need a gap that small with the boost you are running, but that is a completely separate discussion. Plugs/coil can cause misfires, but in no way can affect your HPFP pressure.

Fuel injectors could affect HPFP pressure, but it would need to be a situation like an injector being stuck open (i.e., flowing too much fuel).

Again, I need to see datalogs to see exactly what the car is doing. But it sounds like you don't have those?

bobbykolev · 02-27-2021, 04:56 AM

No i dont have the logs...
What should be the correct gap for this boost?

thejeremyman9 · 02-27-2021, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobbykolev

No i dont have the logs...
What should be the correct gap for this boost?

Stock plugs stock gap are fine for basically any stock turbo application (and beyond). There's no reason to go to NGKs or lower the gap unless you specifically have problems with stock.

Not sure how much help i can provide without logs, that's really the source of information.

bobbykolev · 02-27-2021, 02:17 PM

Tuesday we are going to give it another go and if we dont make it properly i will ask him for the datalogs. Today i tried full throttle 4th gear and fuel rail pressure was 2810 psi. 5th and 6th gear remaind the same but no on full power.

thejeremyman9 · 02-28-2021, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobbykolev

Tuesday we are going to give it another go and if we dont make it properly i will ask him for the datalogs. Today i tried full throttle 4th gear and fuel rail pressure was 2810 psi. 5th and 6th gear remaind the same but no on full power.

Yeah just get some datalogs of the dyno runs and post them up. You can also get some kits to test the ethanol content of your fuel (fuel-it sells them, along with other people) although I am not sure how shipping will be to your location. Higher ethanol content will cause HPFP crash sooner.

If your HPFP is still crashing, just have him dial back the boost a little bit and consider adding more timing to make power if you are running high octane fuel that can support it.

02-26-2021, 03:23 PM	#1
bobbykolev New Member 5 Rep 16 Posts Drives: BMW 435xi Join Date: Feb 2021 Location: Bulgaria iTrader: (0)	HPFP drops mid range Hi guys. I have a 435xi MPPK DINAN stage 2 with Dinan carbon cold air intake, custom downpipe, VRSF chargepipe, MASATA boost pipe, MASATA UHD stepped cooler and Mosselman turbo oil thermostat. Yesterday i was at the dyno and we got 382 hp at the crank. Not a bad number but i didnt like the power delivery and I wanted a custom tune. So we managed to get 330 whp with his map on a bypass mode. When we tried to use stage 1 Dinan the could not keep up with the fuel so he said that he is going to work some more on his tune to get araound 420-440 HP to the crank. With the new flash the car started to lose power around 3.5-4k RPM. We tried different maps but the result was the same. We flashed the map that we got 330whp and the result was the same... not enough fuel. After that with the stock map the car had no issue at all... After few more hours we could not solve the problem. We noticed that around mid range the fuel drops from 150-200 bar to 60 - 5th gear full power . The car works fine till we try to dyno at 5 gear, its the same on the road... Can anyone help?
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02-26-2021, 03:41 PM	#2
thejeremyman9 Major General 4362 Rep 7,602 Posts Drives: 2015 BMW 335i Join Date: May 2019 Location: Cali iTrader: (0)	Why are you mixing whp and crank hp numbers? What correction factor did you use to go from whp to crank hp? I am assuming you are talking about the older Dinan piggyback? or are you talking about a dinan flash? The interaction between your custom tune and the Dinan isnt clear. I am assuming your tuner was logging - post the logs. In any case, if your HPFP pressure was crashing you already know what the problem is. Are you running pump gas? Whats the ethanol % in Bulgaria? How much boost are you running? Whats the octane? I'm not sure what kind of help you are looking for.
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02-26-2021, 05:00 PM	#4
thejeremyman9 Major General 4362 Rep 7,602 Posts Drives: 2015 BMW 335i Join Date: May 2019 Location: Cali iTrader: (0)	That power loss seems excessively high but not relevant to your issue. The main question that still remains is what the ethanol % of your fuel is. 1.2 bar is about 17.5 psi which should be OK for pump gas (0-10% ethanol) but its getting up there in boost. People can usually run that much though without crashing the HPFP. I have gotten up to 16.5-17 psi with E30 without a HPFP crash, but that's at the limit really. If you are overboosting it seems there is a problem with the tune or a hardware problem. You shouldn't be exceeding boost targets by 2-3 psi without throttle closure or other protection kicking in. I assume you are correctly looking at MAP boost and not pre throttle? Pre throttle boost can/will be over target if there is throttle closure. It's possible you also have a HPFP problem, but its mechanical, so quite unlikely. LPFP issues are similarly uncommon and the LPFP limit is much higher than HPFP. I would probably need to see a datalog to provide any more insight.
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02-26-2021, 05:27 PM	#5
bobbykolev New Member 5 Rep 16 Posts Drives: BMW 435xi Join Date: Feb 2021 Location: Bulgaria iTrader: (0)	No idea what the ethanol % is... At the gas station when filling up the car i noticed that there is E10 written on the pistol... 1 - 1.2 bar is the turbo boost. I have also noticed that when i ran stage 2 /before the custom tune/ around 160-170 km at full throttle the car loses power completely. I used those cleaning products which are for fuel injection system changed the spark plugs with NGK 97506 0.20” gapped and i think this problem disappeared after few hundred km. Could it be a problem with fuel injectors or igntion coils?
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02-27-2021, 04:56 AM	#7
bobbykolev New Member 5 Rep 16 Posts Drives: BMW 435xi Join Date: Feb 2021 Location: Bulgaria iTrader: (0)	No i dont have the logs... What should be the correct gap for this boost?
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02-27-2021, 02:17 PM	#9
bobbykolev New Member 5 Rep 16 Posts Drives: BMW 435xi Join Date: Feb 2021 Location: Bulgaria iTrader: (0)	Tuesday we are going to give it another go and if we dont make it properly i will ask him for the datalogs. Today i tried full throttle 4th gear and fuel rail pressure was 2810 psi. 5th and 6th gear remaind the same but no on full power.
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