[husnuke]

I am not satisfied with F36 HiFi sound system and I want to upgrade it. There are many threads for audio upgrades, however, I couldn't find answers to the questions in my mind. Sorry for creating a new thread.

I usually listen to music around %30-%50 volume, so I want to improve bass response and clarity at lower volumes. My budget is limited and I can't speed more than a thousand. Should I replace the amp with a bimmertech or buy speakers?

Do you recommend any other amp instead of bimmertech?
If upgrading speakers is a better option, which speaker (doors or underseat) should I buy or which brand(Bavsound or Bimmertech Alpha One or ...) ?

[Billfitz]

I'm an acoustic engineer, I design speakers for a living. I haven't seen definitive data to indicate any after market speakers are better than stock. But the hi-fi amp is marginal on power, and lacks a useful EQ. A decided improvement would come with an aftermarket amp that doubles available power and has a good EQ.

[soundwave]

I highly recommend Gladen D2 8.6 DSP amp!

[twodoor]

Match UP7BMW or the Bimmertech DSP are two plug and play solutions which are the best start for upgrading the HiFi audio. Don't upgrade the speakers first because the difference will be minimum if not impossible to notice.

[335JTSD]

I'm in the same boat with my F36 Logic 7 HiFi. So would it be the simplistic to get one of those amps and add a sub via a PNP adapter?

[Billfitz]

One of those amps would give much better results than stock, mainly due to the DSP. Even the H-K system DSP is pretty weak in its capabilities. If you want significantly better low end response and/or volume a trunk sub is the only way to get it.

[husnuke]

Do those amps worth their money? They cost around 900$-1000$. I am not planning to put a subwoofer in the trunk because the trunk is almost its limits due to a stroller.

[Encanto]

Whatever "questions in your mind" you may have, a search will answer. But it seems that you do not want to really search.

So here you go:

- Changing the HiFi OEM amp always improve the sound more than changing speakers for the money. As long as the aftermarket amp is balanced inputs, 100W rms per channel max and at least 6ch, any will work.

- If you want to optimize that aftermarket amp with replacing OEM speakers, just replace the front OEM tweeters. Any silk 26mm 4ohm tweeter will do, either with existing OEM cap filter or their filters if included. No need to replace anything else for the money.

- No need for DSP at this budget

That should be considerably less than $1000.

Originally Posted by husnuke

I am not satisfied with F36 HiFi sound system and I want to upgrade it. There are many threads for audio upgrades, however, I couldn't find answers to the questions in my mind. Sorry for creating a new thread.

I usually listen to music around %30-%50 volume, so I want to improve bass response and clarity at lower volumes. My budget is limited and I can't speed more than a thousand. Should I replace the amp with a bimmertech or buy speakers?

Do you recommend any other amp instead of bimmertech?
If upgrading speakers is a better option, which speaker (doors or underseat) should I buy or which brand(Bavsound or Bimmertech Alpha One or ...) ?

[Billfitz]

Originally Posted by husnuke

Do those amps worth their money? They cost around 900$-1000$.

From an intrinsic standpoint they're not worth the money. If you used a generic amp and DSP you could get the same results for half that amount. But doing so calls for a pretty high level of expertise. If you want a plug and play solution you've got to pay the price for it.

I am not planning to put a subwoofer in the trunk because the trunk is almost its limits due to a stroller.

It's possible to mount one behind one of the rear wheels or in the compartment under the trunk. That's also either an expensive alternative for a factory made sub or a DIY job that requires know how, but it can be done. There's a couple of threads on that subject.

If you want to optimize that aftermarket amp with replacing OEM speakers, just replace the front OEM tweeters.

I've tested the OEM tweeters and found they're perfectly OK. The problem they have is that without DSP they don't receive a good signal. Garbage in, garbage out.

[mik]

Originally Posted by Billfitz

From an intrinsic standpoint they're not worth the money. If you used a generic amp and DSP you could get the same results for half that amount. But doing so calls for a pretty high level of expertise. If you want a plug and play solution you've got to pay the price for it.
It's possible to mount one behind one of the rear wheels or in the compartment under the trunk. That's also either an expensive alternative for a factory made sub or a DIY job that requires know how, but it can be done. There's a couple of threads on that subject.
I've tested the OEM tweeters and found they're perfectly OK. The problem they have is that without DSP they don't receive a good signal. Garbage in, garbage out.

Can you recommend a dsp to be used when HiFi amp is replaced with jl 600/6

[Encanto]

Originally Posted by Billfitz

From an intrinsic standpoint they're not worth the money. If you used a generic amp and DSP you could get the same results for half that amount. But doing so calls for a pretty high level of expertise. If you want a plug and play solution you've got to pay the price for it.
It's possible to mount one behind one of the rear wheels or in the compartment under the trunk. That's also either an expensive alternative for a factory made sub or a DIY job that requires know how, but it can be done. There's a couple of threads on that subject.
I've tested the OEM tweeters and found they're perfectly OK. The problem they have is that without DSP they don't receive a good signal. Garbage in, garbage out.

No DSP is needed with HiFi if center speaker is not kept. There is no sum, no level conversion, no signal correction to be done. OEM tweeters lack of clarity is magnified by replacing the OEM amp with aftermarket.

[Billfitz]

DSP is far more than just summing and level conversion. As for signal correction, that's the main job of DSP. DSP stands for digital signal processing, which mainly entails EQ, but can also include other functions, like crossovers. As for a lack of clarity with the OEM tweeters, mine have no lack of clarity or range. That's not a subjective opinion. I measured their response and they're very smooth all the way up to 18kHz.

Can you recommend a dsp to be used when HiFi amp is replaced with jl 600/6

This would work very well, but you'd have to figure out how to wire it between the head unit and amp:
https://www.minidsp.com/products/car...-dsp/c-dsp-6x8
Wiring it to the amp would be easy, it's the connection to the head unit that would be challenging, if possible at all.

[Encanto]

OP budget is less than $1000. DSP + aftermarket amp will exceed $1000 if new. HiFi system does not need a DSP just because there’s is no OEM HU signal to correct - signal is flat, low level and full. Crossovers are in the aftermarket amp.

Connecting a DSP between the OEM HU and the OEM amp (which has its own DSP) makes no sense and improves nothing.

Peace out...

Originally Posted by Billfitz

DSP is far more than just summing and level conversion. As for signal correction, that's the main job of DSP. DSP stands for digital signal processing, which mainly entails EQ, but can also include other functions, like crossovers. As for a lack of clarity with the OEM tweeters, mine have no lack of clarity or range. That's not a subjective opinion. I measured their response and they're very smooth all the way up to 18kHz.
This would work very well, but you'd have to figure out how to wire it between the head unit and amp:
https://www.minidsp.com/products/car...-dsp/c-dsp-6x8
Wiring it to the amp would be easy, it's the connection to the head unit that would be challenging, if possible at all.

[Billfitz]

Originally Posted by Encanto

HiFi system does not need a DSP just because there’s is no OEM HU signal to correct - signal is flat

Listening to a system with flat response is like drinking flat beer: not tasty. The need for EQ to give a pleasing system response is even more critical in a car than in a home theater, because of the inherently poor acoustics of a car and the road noise that the system has to overcome.

Connecting a DSP between the OEM HU and the OEM amp (which has its own DSP) makes no sense and improves nothing.

Doing so allows the user to configure the system response to their own liking. Yes, the hi-fi amp has DSP correction, and if you happen to find the programming done by the Harmon engineers gives a 100% pleasing result then the ability to alter the response wouldn't be beneficial to you. If all owners found that to be the case threads like this one wouldn't exist.

[husnuke]

I ordered BimmerTech PnP amp and waiting for the shipment. Thanks all for your advice. I hope I will be happy with this upgrade.
Maybe I upgrade tweeters if I have lack of clarity after the amp upgrade.

[Billfitz]

I doubt a tweeter upgrade is necessary, as the stock tweeters are quite good. Adding tweeters to the rear doors would be a good idea. I installed a pair of these:
https://www.amazon.com/JBL-GTO19T-Pr...s=jbl+tweeters

[husnuke]

Originally Posted by Billfitz

I doubt a tweeter upgrade is necessary, as the stock tweeters are quite good. Adding tweeters to the rear doors would be a good idea. I installed a pair of these:
https://www.amazon.com/JBL-GTO19T-Pr...s=jbl+tweeters

Do I need to cut a hole to the panel to add these?

[cdgatti]

I've gone through several iterations with my e90 when I got it in 2011. First speakers, then added more power, then added a DSP and even better amps. Speakers and amps are dependent on one another, meaning the stock speakers aren't designed to handle too much power so although you can improve them with cleaner power with more headroom don't expect magic. The single best thing you can do is add power, then improve the speakers, but if you get all the way to then adding DSP - that was the true magic for my system, by having control of the crossovers you can send more power to the proper speakers, by having an EQ you can tune out the nasty frequencies that hurt when you play your system loud, and by having time alignment to move the speakers in space, you finally get that great sound where the music is just hanging in the air and doesn't sound like it is coming from the point source speakers. When I achieved that, I stopped my modifications because I knew it would take alot more money to get any better.

[Billfitz]

Originally Posted by husnuke

Do I need to cut a hole to the panel to add these?

You do, as you would with any tweeter. My 328 had the spot for the hole embossed on the inside of the door liner, I assume yours is the same. The bezel that the tweeter is surface mounted on eliminates the need for any brackets. Mine look like this, with the mounting ring wrapped in silver vinyl:

[JJFox]

Originally Posted by Billfitz

I'm an acoustic engineer, I design speakers for a living. I haven't seen definitive data to indicate any after market speakers are better than stock. But the hi-fi amp is marginal on power, and lacks a useful EQ. A decided improvement would come with an aftermarket amp that doubles available power and has a good EQ.

I just bought the UP7 amp because I had the same opinion as you Billfitz. I did tons of research, and saw your posts on pretty much all the threads related to upgrading HIfI. Your one of the few people on these forums who seems to post truly educated opinions/facts haha. As I did more and more research I was glad to find somebody who had the same opinion about it as I did.


Your exactly right. Stock speakers are great and extremely capable. People see fiberglass cones, cast frames, and giant ferrite magnets and think that means it’s something special.

This is the first DSP amp I’ve ever owned and holy crap what a difference it makes to sound quality. Ive been so thrilled with the 30 band EQ. I know the stock amp has primitive DSP so it’s no wonder the BMW is as balanced, well timed, and clear as it is even with the stock amp.

I’m gonna paste my review of the amp, and the change from stock amp and stock everything to stock with the new amp. I’m sure some will find it informative here.

REVIEW:

The Match Up7 BMW is pretty awesome with stock speakers. I’m incredibly surprised the stock speakers are this capable. Its much louder, and it retains the same sound quality at much higher volumes with a proper tune. Bass response is much better surprisingly. I really think the stock base system was pretty great, compared to any base system in any car I’ve driven (I deal with a lot of rentals), it was just way too quiet for me.

I do have to say that I’m running all the gains pretty much maxed out, and had to boost my whole EQ several DBs to get the volume I wanted. If ads are correct, that means the stock speakers are taking around 65w and the woofers 100+rms. I was getting way more distortion at max volume stock than I am at max volume now. Even with the amp pushing as much as it can it still could be a hair louder, my last car with a full pro audio spl setup and a top of the line pioneer touchscreen with 16 band eq was louder (duh!! But Sound quality was nowhere near this good), But I’m pretty happy with it, it’s more than loud enough. I needed to get out of my ear bursting phase anyways.

Knowing that, and knowing the the speaker specs that have been posted by billfitz and others on this forum, I question what the purpose of replacing the stock speakers is. People complain about the tweeters, and the woofers, but they keep up no problem. Its very clear that the issues that the stock system had were an underpowered amp that was being overdriven, causing speakers to distort, And crossovers that were a little Off.

I don’t see how replacing the speakers could ever do much at all for anybody, unless you got a way more powerful amp than either bimmertech or the up7. Even then, I’d question how much more capable they would be. I’m really glad I went with my gut and replaced the amp instead of speakers.

[JJFox]

Originally Posted by Billfitz

You do, as you would with any tweeter. My 328 had the spot for the hole embossed on the inside of the door liner, I assume yours is the same. The bezel that the tweeter is surface mounted on eliminates the need for any brackets. Mine look like this, with the mounting ring wrapped in silver vinyl:

Bill did you just run the tweeters inline with the rear doors? Just running a passive crossover In the door? I figure you had to have. It’s a neat idea and looks great.

[JJFox]

Originally Posted by husnuke

I ordered BimmerTech PnP amp and waiting for the shipment. Thanks all for your advice. I hope I will be happy with this upgrade.
Maybe I upgrade tweeters if I have lack of clarity after the amp upgrade.

What have you thought about the amp upgrade so far? I’d be glad to share my file with you if you’d like. I’m really happy with it. I have a couple frequencies I still need to pull back a hair, but I’m pretty satisfied with it.