[Wills2]

From what I've read the car detected the test conditions and injected urea into the exhaust to reduce emissions, this was just for the tests and was developed solely to defeat them.

I think they're in real trouble, not just the potential fines but what about a class action suit that aims to not only get punitive damages but also a full refund on the "illegal" cars and the right to stop paying for them.

Then what about the ROW?


If we look at other scandals (Toyota brake pedals/BP deep water horizon) they were faults or accidents but this is deception quite a different kettle of beef.

[Wills2]

Originally Posted by Nick the Greek

VW shares down 40%........

At this rate they will break any banking covenants they have before the end of the week!

According to the 1/2 year results back in June they had around 18 billion in cash or equivalents and just over 100billion in liabilities, however they have lots of assets on the books and good cash flow but that cash flow comes from selling and financing cars and the sales were already slowing.

That share price drop is quite scary.

[pdk42]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

What has stood out to me, even with the earlier reports of cars failing EU6 emissions tests in the real world, it didn't appear to be taken seriously here in Europe. It seems it has taken the US EPA and others investigating this issue, to look for why and how.

HighlandPete

Yes, I was thinking this too. I guess we (and the regulators) have just got used to test results being narrowly interpreted as applying only to the conditions of the test - "so what if it doesn't meet the mpg/NOx/CO2 etc when real people drive the cars - it meets them on the test"!

Of course, the yanks with their gold-plated environmental credentials had to go asking questions - especially since the US car-makers make almost no diesel-powered small vehicles!

[Wills2]

The EU tests are paid for by the manufacturers and conducted at their own labs!

They even use "special" cars, according to a report on the BBC the reason they used the defeat system was to save themselves paying £200 for a better part so this is all down $$$ (huge surprise) rather than a lack of available tech to meet the standards.

VAG have admitted 11 million cars worldwide have the system.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by Wills2

The EU tests are paid for by the manufacturers and conducted at their own labs!

They even use "special" cars, according to a report on the BBC the reason they used the defeat system was to save themselves paying £200 for a better part so this is all down $$$ (huge surprise) rather than a lack of available tech to meet the standards.

VAG have admitted 11 million cars worldwide have the system.

I've just heard the 'confession' on the 11 million diesel cars. So we do have a similar situation over here where NOx levels are not being controlled in real world use. Makes a mockery of "passing" the EU6 NEDC test.

I do wonder how the LNT/NSC after treatment systems really cope, SCR does seem to be really necessary to control NOx.

Will be interesting to see how BMW come out of this with NSC (NOx Storage Catalyst) systems for EU6 compliance, in our diesel models. I'm sure we will see much more independent testing, PEMS (Portable Emission Measuring Systems) will sort out who really have cleaner cars in the real world.

HighlandPete

[jusdorange]

What have we learnt today kids ?

[Quakered]

I see the American press is referring to VW as the Lance Armstrong of motor manufactures and even that nice Mr Obama is involved. I think it is impossible to quantify how deep VW are in the brown stuff but let's look on the bright side. It should ensure the poor Americans don't have to suffer diesel cars any more. Also pretty certain that the head man will be looking for a new job by the end of the week and perhaps a spell in a US prison.

[pdk42]

Originally Posted by jusdorange

What have we learnt today kids ?

I think in truth that this is true - if effects on humans are the measure. NOx and particulates have proven health risks.

It's certainly true that the tide of informed and public opinion is going against diesel. I can see in the medium term (5 years) that diesel will be seriously on the decline

[visor]

Unfortunately diesel will be around for a while in the form of big trucks and buses that still run on diesel. And they're everywhere and not as strictly regulated in emissions. And we don't have much choice in making them cleaner as that would have significant impact on public transportation, goods deliveries, etc.

[visor]

I posted on another forum how I was curious about what parameter the engineers designed the software to look out for in order to know it's in test mode and hence trigger clean mode in order to pass not only OBD plug-in testing but also more stringent lab tests that involve exhaust gas measurement and driving wheels on rollers.

It seems that steering wheel movement sensor is it.

And that was how the defeat software was finally detected when someone took the cars out for an actual real world drive test on the road...

But really, how long did the engineers think they could get away undetected? Well, a good 6 yrs I suppose...

[F30AM]

Lying, cheating BARSTRDS.

Well and truly shafted themselves.

Liar, liar, pants on fire ..........

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-34325005

[dazzapb]

5 billon quid set aside for costs so far. OMG!

For the sake of a relatively cheap part (as above) its ridiculous. What else has VW done? - gone for cheaper airbags, cheaper safety systems, cheaper plastics in cabin (I noticed this but all are doing it). This mistrust will worry people as people will think they cut corners.....

[JustChris]

Originally Posted by dazzapb

5 billon quid set aside for costs so far. OMG!

For the sake of a relatively cheap part (as above) its ridiculous. What else has VW done? - gone for cheaper airbags, cheaper safety systems, cheaper plastics in cabin (I noticed this but all are doing it). This mistrust will worry people as people will think they cut corners.....

5 Billion wont touch the sides one this kicks in.

[Nick the Greek]

Originally Posted by Quakered

I see the American press is referring to VW as the Lance Armstrong of motor manufactures and even that nice Mr Obama is involved. I think it is impossible to quantify how deep VW are in the brown stuff but let's look on the bright side. It should ensure the poor Americans don't have to suffer diesel cars any more. Also pretty certain that the head man will be looking for a new job by the end of the week and perhaps a spell in a US prison.

Hallelujah

Hallelujah

A God fearing nation the USA. Nick rarely has to quote the bible on the US forum

[Nick the Greek]

Originally Posted by Chris The Manx

5 Billion wont touch the sides one this kicks in.

And remember.

VW itself is not profitable.

The profits are in Audi and Porsche.

[....,,,,..,,..]

Originally Posted by Nick the Greek

Hallelujah

Hallelujah

A God fearing nation the USA. Nick rarely has to quote the bible on the US forum

That would prove rather fun I do believe lol.

[Nick the Greek]

Originally Posted by pdk42

I think in truth that this is true - if effects on humans are the measure. NOx and particulates have proven health risks.

It's certainly true that the tide of informed and public opinion is going against diesel. I can see in the medium term (5 years) that diesel will be seriously on the decline

Watch your residual values fall chaps......D

Get out of the diesel whilst there's still a market.

[FSE23]

From article: "It's vital that the public has confidence in vehicle emissions tests "
Honestly I don't care, I look on emission only because it shows me the level of a tax I should pay afterwards, nothing else. Cars are better nowadays anyway and it doesn't make so much difference to me if they emit 120 or 200g CO2. Cow produces more......

[....,,,,..,,..]

I wonder how fast VAG diesels will free fall.

3 series diesels are rather quick at dropping.

VAG will be like Wall Street circa 1929.

[Nick the Greek]

Originally Posted by piono

From article: "It's vital that the public has confidence in vehicle emissions tests "
Honestly I don't care, I look on emission only because it shows me the level of a tax I should pay afterwards, nothing else. Cars are better nowadays anyway and it doesn't make so much difference to me if they emit 120 or 200g CO2. Cow produces more......

I would never recommend driving a cow to work tho'.....

[....,,,,..,,..]

Originally Posted by Nick the Greek

I would never recommend driving a cow to work tho'.....

Yeah from what udders ave said their horns don't work and usuall fail their MOOt

[tjlees]

There is nothing that the US enjoys more than taking a euro company to the cleaners - BP previously and now VW.