[Tommy-G]

Originally Posted by Chihuahua

Your insurance adjuster does not know what he/she is talking about, is likely not ASE certified, and clearly does not know anything about basic internal combustion engine principles. Progressive's field staff do not have a good reputation in this industry.

Signed,

An insurance adjuster

As I'm sure you know, Insurance carriers DON'T WANT knowledgable adjusters. It costs them money in salaries and claim payouts

[liudicrous]

Originally Posted by Chihuahua

Your insurance adjuster does not know what he/she is talking about, is likely not ASE certified, and clearly does not know anything about basic internal combustion engine principles. Progressive's field staff do not have a good reputation in this industry.

Signed,

An insurance adjuster

Here are the compression test results. I don't really see anything off with the pressure of each cylinder, not a crazy variance really. Not sure what the expected piston travel should be. Confused about the last statement the service advisor mentioned but currently awaiting insurance to respond.

From service advisor:

COMPRESSION TEST RESULT.

1= 190 PSI.

2= 195PSI.

3= 200PSI

4= 200PSI.

5= 200PSI.

6= 200PSI.

PISTON TRAVEL.

1= 90MM.

2=90MM

3= 91MM

4=91MM

5=91MM

6=91MM

BORE SCOPE PICTURES TAKE 2 PER CYL 5, AND 6 . IS BAD.

[AlpineX]

Sounds like 5 and 6 may have visual damage. 1 and 2 maybe bent rods.

[liudicrous]

Originally Posted by AlpineX

Sounds like 5 and 6 may have visual damage. 1 and 2 maybe bent rods.

Thanks. I received a call from my insurance inspector and he took my car for a test drive with a different service advisor since my advisor is off today. He says that the car is good to go - I asked if he had any concerns about the pictures that were sent and he said everything looks fine.

At this point, I don't know what I should do since the inspector seems to just want to close this claim. He and the claims rep both stated that if something does happen later related to this claim, then I would not have to file a separate claim and pay another deductible. Thoughts?

[Wgosma]

did you ask for explanation of cylinder scope pics? What was their response?

compression and piston travel data look ok/consistent.

were you able to get any specifics on how future issues are determined to be tied (OR NOR) TO RECENT CLAIM/DAMAGE?

[AlpineX]

Originally Posted by Wgosma

compression and piston travel data look ok/consistent.

The travel should be identical across all cylinders. The difference in compression seems about right for the difference in travel IMH(unscientific)O

[liudicrous]

Originally Posted by Wgosma

did you ask for explanation of cylinder scope pics? What was their response?

compression and piston travel data look ok/consistent.

were you able to get any specifics on how future issues are determined to be tied (OR NOR) TO RECENT CLAIM/DAMAGE?

I did but waiting on a response.

I have requested this but haven't received anything yet.

[liudicrous]

Originally Posted by AlpineX

The travel should be identical across all cylinders. The difference in compression seems about right for the difference in travel IMH(unscientific)O

What does it typically indicate when the travel is off?

[Wgosma]

Originally Posted by liudicrous

What does it typically indicate when the travel is off?

Potentially bent piston rod or interference between top of piston and valve.

Piston stroke in each cylinder will be identical, but there is a tolerance to any measurement, not certain what that is.
Your stroke variance is tad over 1%- you'd need to lookup stroke spec'd to see if that is in or out of tolerance. Might find data at NEWTIS.info website.

BMW Dealer techs will have this info and be able to access/explain if numbers represent any problem.

[liudicrous]

Originally Posted by Wgosma

Potentially bent piston rod or interference between top of piston and valve.

Piston stroke in each cylinder will be identical, but there is a tolerance to any measurement, not certain what that is.
Your stroke variance is tad over 1%- you'd need to lookup stroke spec'd to see if that is in or out of tolerance. Might find data at NEWTIS.info website.

BMW Dealer techs will have this info and be able to access/explain if numbers represent any problem.

Appreciate the prompt response. Sent an e-mail out to my advisor asking to have the tech write up more detailed explanations rather than "cylinders 5 and 6 are bad". Hopefully that'll help their/my case in getting the engine replaced.

[liudicrous]

Originally Posted by Wgosma

did you ask for explanation of cylinder scope pics? What was their response?

compression and piston travel data look ok/consistent.

were you able to get any specifics on how future issues are determined to be tied (OR NOR) TO RECENT CLAIM/DAMAGE?

They said that the pics were showing that the cylinder walls are severely pitted and have corrosion and that the other cylinders were showing similar signs but not as severe as 5 and 6. Also, according to BMW standard, that the engine is damaged and likely to cause compression and pre-mature wear; if the vehicle were under new vehicle warranty from BMW NA, the engine would be replaced.

He mentioned that the compression test results and piston travel specs are within spec and the piston travel spec is expected to be 89mm.

Now, insurance is claiming that this issue is a pre-existing issue... WTF? They are asking me for all of my maintenance records on the vehicle. This is getting ridiculous.

[Wgosma]

Originally Posted by liudicrous

They said that the pics were showing that the cylinder walls are severely pitted and have corrosion and that the other cylinders were showing similar signs but not as severe as 5 and 6. Also, according to BMW standard, that the engine is damaged and likely to cause compression and pre-mature wear; if the vehicle were under new vehicle warranty from BMW NA, the engine would be replaced.

He mentioned that the compression test results and piston travel specs are within spec and the piston travel spec is expected to be 89mm.

Now, insurance is claiming that this issue is a pre-existing issue... WTF? They are asking me for all of my maintenance records on the vehicle. This is getting ridiculous.

What a mess. I re-read your initial posting, it reads in part:

"Progressive doesn't go out until Tuesday and they want to just change the oil. I didn't know this fact until Thursday but the adjuster apparently started the car but didn't tell the dealership. Claims he is an ASE certified tech of 15 years and he doesn't think the engine took any water damage because "it started". On Thursday, I received a call back that the oil change didn't fix anything and the next thing the adjuster wants BMW to do is to change the spark plugs and check the engine for water."

Well now, I'm not there to see the car and I'm not a mechanic but geez, the insurance inspector fired up the car before ANY sort of visual inspection / analysis / diagnostics were conducted regards potential water damage? - seems that right there was a MAJOR mis-step and that may well have contributed to or was the direct cause of this so-called 'pre-existing' damage.

If I were you, I'd be all over these people at Progressive - the management folks. Best to Document your 'case' (in writing) including specifics provided by BMW and let them know car gets a new motor. Maybe you need to consult an attorney, I've never been in this situation so really can't advise best direction to head aside from taking the issue to Progressive management.

Best of luck/Bill

[liudicrous]

Originally Posted by Wgosma

What a mess. I re-read your initial posting, it reads in part:

"Progressive doesn't go out until Tuesday and they want to just change the oil. I didn't know this fact until Thursday but the adjuster apparently started the car but didn't tell the dealership. Claims he is an ASE certified tech of 15 years and he doesn't think the engine took any water damage because "it started". On Thursday, I received a call back that the oil change didn't fix anything and the next thing the adjuster wants BMW to do is to change the spark plugs and check the engine for water."

Well now, I'm not there to see the car and I'm not a mechanic but geez, the insurance inspector fired up the car before ANY sort of visual inspection / analysis / diagnostics were conducted regards potential water damage? - seems that right there was a MAJOR mis-step and that may well have contributed to or was the direct cause of this so-called 'pre-existing' damage.

If I were you, I'd be all over these people at Progressive - the management folks. Best to Document your 'case' (in writing) including specifics provided by BMW and let them know car gets a new motor. Maybe you need to consult an attorney, I've never been in this situation so really can't advise best direction to head aside from taking the issue to Progressive management.

Best of luck/Bill

Thanks, Bill! This is becoming a nightmare to deal with. I have been trying to escalate to management at Progressive but the highest level I can get to is the adjuster's supervisor. He is the reason why the adjuster is doing a more thorough investigation into the engine's condition.

I am going to give it another day or two and see what insurance says. I have provided them all the documents they requested and the ball is in their court now. Appreciate you and everyone else's input/suggestions.

[Wgosma]

Good luck and keep us posted. These modern engines require relatively little maintenance beyond oil/filter changes. Hard to believe Progressive can find a legit 'out' on this one if your records show proper maintenance.

That insurance tech should not have just fired up the motor right off the bat- I'd be willing to bet that caused some or all the damage.

[Chihuahua]

Originally Posted by Wgosma

That insurance tech should not have just fired up the motor right off the bat- I'd be willing to bet that caused some or all the damage.

This. The last thing you should ever do if you think an engine has ingested water is attempt to start it. Dumb. I got lucky once with a client and a hyrdolocked older 350Z. We pulled all plugs, rotated the engine with the starter, let it dry out, then put everything back together. Compression numbers were all good, and when i followed up with him a couple of months later he reported no problems. Sometimes (rarely) you can get lucky with a hyrdolocked engine. Sorry OP is having so much trouble here, best of luck in getting this resolved.

[Wgosma]

Any update on the insurance claim?

[liudicrous]

Originally Posted by Wgosma

Any update on the insurance claim?

At this point, still waiting on Progressive. Last Friday, the claims rep (not adjuster) asked for DTC codes/freeze frame data to which the service advisor responded that they don't have any DTC codes or freeze frame data for my vehicle and that my car does not currently have any codes.

This morning, the claims rep e-mailed me asking how fast I was going the day of the claim, how far I traveled in the puddle and if my car sputtered or just shut off completely. Now, waiting for her to respond.

[F30lolz]

Originally Posted by liudicrous

At this point, still waiting on Progressive. Last Friday, the claims rep (not adjuster) asked for DTC codes/freeze frame data to which the service advisor responded that they don't have any DTC codes or freeze frame data for my vehicle and any codes.

This morning, the claims rep e-mailed me asking how fast I was going the day of the claim, how far I traveled in the puddle and if my car sputtered or just shut off completely. Not waiting for her to respond.

Jesus this is being dragged out.

[Wgosma]

Messy....Progressive seems be trying to find some way, any way, out of replacing the motor.

[liudicrous]

Originally Posted by Wgosma

Messy....Progressive seems be trying to find some way, any way, out of replacing the motor.

Yep, it's a joke. They tried returning the car twice to me now and I've told them that there's rust in the engine per the pics from the dealership and they have yet to give me a response about that.

[Tommy-G]

Time to invoke the appraisal clause my friend. Message me if you need a go to guy to help you.
This is absurd!!!

[liudicrous]

Originally Posted by TommyG-inFlaNow

Time to invoke the appraisal clause my friend. Message me if you need a go to guy to help you.
This is absurd!!!

Going to let them win and grab the car, it's practically impossible to not have a car in Atlanta and my boss has been kind enough to let me work remote while I'm dealing with this insurance nightmare. I have a pretty busy schedule and really need my car back. If issues do arise, then I'll just re-open the claim.

I asked them two questions and their response is below.

1. How is progressive going to determine if future issues are tied to recent claim/damage?

If additional issues do arise, we would need proof of the loss proof that the new issues,
if any are consistent with this loss.

2. If there are future issues and tied to the recent claim/damage, will the customer be responsible for paying another
deductible?

If any additional damages prove to be related to this claim, the customer will not pay another deductible.