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      03-28-2019, 07:49 PM   #1
paradocs98
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No love for manuals

Got this email today. Holdover 2018 440xi with manual, in dealer stock. Looks like they're trying to get rid of it and off their books. Might be a decent deal for someone interested in a manual transmission car. But it's a sign of the times--BMW is one of the last luxury manufacturers to still offer manual transmissions, but fewer and fewer customers seem to want them. No wonder the vast majority of dealer stock is auto-transmission cars. Either this dealer gambled poorly that someone would want a manual 440xi off the showroom floor, or someone backed out of an order...
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      03-28-2019, 09:25 PM   #2
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That's still a terrible lease deal. Considering that's a 2018, should have at least zero cap cost.
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      03-28-2019, 09:35 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bknydon View Post
That's still a terrible lease deal. Considering that's a 2018, should have at least zero cap cost.
You're absolutely right. Didn't see the $2995 down. Stinker of a deal.
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      03-28-2019, 09:54 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by paradocs98 View Post
You're absolutely right. Didn't see the $2995 down. Stinker of a deal.
Lol TDAS is prob close to 5k. Byeeeeee!
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      03-29-2019, 03:40 AM   #5
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It's not a terrible deal considering it's a $65k car. I'm not much of a leaser, but doesn't that work out to being something like negotiating the car down to about $48k or so?
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      03-29-2019, 10:39 AM   #6
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$65k is the MSRP, sure, but this pup's a Demo too.
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      03-29-2019, 12:08 PM   #7
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$65k is the MSRP, sure, but this pup's a Demo too.
Am I missing something? The ad shows that it's new.
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      03-29-2019, 12:55 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paradocs98 View Post
Got this email today. Holdover 2018 440xi with manual, in dealer stock. Looks like they're trying to get rid of it and off their books. Might be a decent deal for someone interested in a manual transmission car. But it's a sign of the times--BMW is one of the last luxury manufacturers to still offer manual transmissions, but fewer and fewer customers seem to want them. No wonder the vast majority of dealer stock is auto-transmission cars. Either this dealer gambled poorly that someone would want a manual 440xi off the showroom floor, or someone backed out of an order...
Part of the problem you mention is actually a self fulfilling prophecy. The dealers don't order manuals and Americans just want to drive in buy a car and leave with it. Then you complain that they don't have manuals so the GM will order a Java green car loaded with executive package, 15k in carbon add one, extended leather then when it doesn't sell they say. Oh manuals don't sell. The kind of guy that wants a manual usually wants a lighter sportier version with the go options like cloth or Alcantara black interiors and less fluff. Then you go and ask the dealer if they have a cloth no sunroof manual and they say if you are on a budget buy a 335. They don't effin' get it because they are not enthusiasts. They don't understand driving dynamics etc. They think the only reason you want a bare bones car is cost. Same with Audi. I was very interested in the S3 but they only offered the manual in base cars as a cost savings option. If you wanted an RS3 or S3 with a manual not offered. A manual these days is not a cost saving option it is for enthusiasts. So Audi says no manuals were selling and they discontinued all of them. But there were people that wanted RS and S verdins in manual. No manual so I didn't buy one. Same applies here. Most enthusiasts that want a manual want a rear drive car. Yes there might be a few that want all wheel drive but rare. This lack of understanding has ruined the manual. I was on 3 dealers call lists for manual cars. They would call me and they would be BLoaded versión with a manual and they didn't sell. Also dealers talk buyers out of manuals. They call Automatics manuals and tell people that are stupid to buy a manual and scare them out of it. They say the same stupid stuff. We had an M3 on the floor for 9 months and it didn't sell. They don't tell you it Boss Hog M3 with a manual and $10k markup or better yet a used no option m3 with wheels studs, coil overs and obvious track duty. People are like cattle and just follow en masse. The same thing happened with plasma screens where saws people were scaring everyone about burn in and things that were no longer true or VHS over Beta etc. I'm an IT guy and I remember reading some reviews in industry rags. At one point Packers Bell PCs were the top selling PC on the market. In the same review Packard Bell was in the bottom of the reliability chart but the masses had spoken.

Finally, the reality is there are only a few people that care about driving or even know how to drive. I can't recall that last time someone moved out of the fast lane to let a car pass before the car had to sit on their rear view for some time and the other 3 lanes were free. So there are many reasons but manufacturers and dealers have been trying to kill the manual for years and they have succeeded with their tone deafness. I can recall over the last 30 years how may times I would've walked out of a dealership with a new manual car if they had some good options available not some pink boss hog carbon trimmed hideous mobile with a manual. Manual miatas have been selling for years because you were able to go to the dealer and pick one of several colors and trims! I remember when I was looking at an E46 M3 the salesman tried pushing me into an SMG and telling me I was stupid and obstinant because the SMG was the future. Go look at SMG prices bs Manual ones now.

Now if that was a black interior M sport with low options that might not be sitting unsold today.
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      03-29-2019, 02:10 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nachob View Post
Part of the problem you mention is actually a self fulfilling prophecy. The dealers don't order manuals and Americans just want to drive in buy a car and leave with it. Then you complain that they don't have manuals so the GM will order a Java green car loaded with executive package, 15k in carbon add one, extended leather then when it doesn't sell they say. Oh manuals don't sell. The kind of guy that wants a manual usually wants a lighter sportier version with the go options like cloth or Alcantara black interiors and less fluff. Then you go and ask the dealer if they have a cloth no sunroof manual and they say if you are on a budget buy a 335. They don't effin' get it because they are not enthusiasts. They don't understand driving dynamics etc. They think the only reason you want a bare bones car is cost. Same with Audi. I was very interested in the S3 but they only offered the manual in base cars as a cost savings option. If you wanted an RS3 or S3 with a manual not offered. A manual these days is not a cost saving option it is for enthusiasts. So Audi says no manuals were selling and they discontinued all of them. But there were people that wanted RS and S verdins in manual. No manual so I didn't buy one. Same applies here. Most enthusiasts that want a manual want a rear drive car. Yes there might be a few that want all wheel drive but rare. This lack of understanding has ruined the manual. I was on 3 dealers call lists for manual cars. They would call me and they would be BLoaded versión with a manual and they didn't sell. Also dealers talk buyers out of manuals. They call Automatics manuals and tell people that are stupid to buy a manual and scare them out of it. They say the same stupid stuff. We had an M3 on the floor for 9 months and it didn't sell. They don't tell you it Boss Hog M3 with a manual and $10k markup or better yet a used no option m3 with wheels studs, coil overs and obvious track duty. People are like cattle and just follow en masse. The same thing happened with plasma screens where saws people were scaring everyone about burn in and things that were no longer true or VHS over Beta etc. I'm an IT guy and I remember reading some reviews in industry rags. At one point Packers Bell PCs were the top selling PC on the market. In the same review Packard Bell was in the bottom of the reliability chart but the masses had spoken.

Finally, the reality is there are only a few people that care about driving or even know how to drive. I can't recall that last time someone moved out of the fast lane to let a car pass before the car had to sit on their rear view for some time and the other 3 lanes were free. So there are many reasons but manufacturers and dealers have been trying to kill the manual for years and they have succeeded with their tone deafness. I can recall over the last 30 years how may times I would've walked out of a dealership with a new manual car if they had some good options available not some pink boss hog carbon trimmed hideous mobile with a manual. Manual miatas have been selling for years because you were able to go to the dealer and pick one of several colors and trims! I remember when I was looking at an E46 M3 the salesman tried pushing me into an SMG and telling me I was stupid and obstinant because the SMG was the future. Go look at SMG prices bs Manual ones now.

Now if that was a black interior M sport with low options that might not be sitting unsold today.

Wow, that felt more like a rant lol, and you're kinda all over the place with TVs and PCs and cars, but I do get your point.

Another reason why I think the auto tranny have taken over is because the new autos are really good, I been driving manual for 15 years, my E92 335i I had for 7 years was manual and loved it, but now having a ZF8 auto, I can't say I missed the manual.

Last edited by Zanity; 03-29-2019 at 02:36 PM..
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      03-29-2019, 03:25 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by upsidedownfunnel View Post
Am I missing something? The ad shows that it's new.
I did a search on their website.

Further search shows it's not available.
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      03-29-2019, 11:42 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zanity View Post
Wow, that felt more like a rant lol, and you're kinda all over the place with TVs and PCs and cars, but I do get your point.

Another reason why I think the auto tranny have taken over is because the new autos are really good, I been driving manual for 15 years, my E92 335i I had for 7 years was manual and loved it, but now having a ZF8 auto, I can't say I missed the manual.
: ) Yes it started off as a gentle seedling and grew into Jack's Beanstalk Rant.

Yes, If in a 3 series sedan, the auto is pretty good and appropriate for the car. I have two manuals and two automatics. When i go to Los Angeles, I usually take the auto. I forgot this was not the M3 forum and my frustration is mostly with M cars and just for got carried away.

I just think a 3 series with a manual is the perfect car for a true enthusiast that has a family.

Sorry for the rant gentlemen and ladies. : )
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      03-30-2019, 03:54 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nachob View Post
: ) Yes it started off as a gentle seedling and grew into Jack's Beanstalk Rant.

Yes, If in a 3 series sedan, the auto is pretty good and appropriate for the car. I have two manuals and two automatics. When i go to Los Angeles, I usually take the auto. I forgot this was not the M3 forum and my frustration is mostly with M cars and just for got carried away.

I just think a 3 series with a manual is the perfect car for a true enthusiast that has a family.

Sorry for the rant gentlemen and ladies. : )
When I go to Los Angeles, I usually take the auto.

Traffic is what got me to get an auto. Seriously I love to drive my drift machine Silvia Kouki Sr20det power with stage 2 clutch but stop and go....hell NO.
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      03-31-2019, 12:25 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Gen13 F36 View Post
When I go to Los Angeles, I usually take the auto.

Traffic is what got me to get an auto. Seriously I love to drive my drift machine Silvia Kouki Sr20det power with stage 2 clutch but stop and go....hell NO.
Totally agree, when I was dailying my manual E92 to work in traffic, well, I can say I got my daily exercise out of that. Now I can relax =)
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      03-31-2019, 12:38 PM   #14
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Lets face it. Manuals just aren't as quick as autos now. Sure, they are fun to drive but I wouldn't want to do it daily.

See Ferrari, and actually watch this video. Chris Harris will explain to you:

https://youtu.be/XwuqcAxtsso
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      03-31-2019, 12:46 PM   #15
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It’s pretty simple. Most bmw “enthusiasts” that drive manual also don’t want to be the “suckers” paying the initial depreciation so they buy used. So new manuals don’t sell well. No rant needed.

But look at the used manual crowd and they want full loaded. Not strippers.
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      04-06-2019, 01:47 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nachob View Post
Then you go and ask the dealer if they have a cloth no sunroof manual and they say if you are on a budget buy a 335.
This made me LOL. So true.
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      04-06-2019, 01:53 PM   #17
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I would say tho just learn how to drive a manual.... it's totally worth it.
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      04-08-2019, 01:48 PM   #18
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I've driven the 8AT 335. And I prefer my 6 speed. It's fast and all but it's just like any auto which I find rather un engaging. Sad to see them go
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      04-08-2019, 01:53 PM   #19
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I've driven the 8AT 335. And I prefer my 6 speed. It's fast and all but it's just like any auto which I find rather un engaging. Sad to see them go
I used to think that way about 10 years ago. No use fighting something as inevitable as death and taxes. The manual is dead, even race cars don't have them anymore.
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      04-08-2019, 02:27 PM   #20
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddien123 View Post
I've driven the 8AT 335. And I prefer my 6 speed. It's fast and all but it's just like any auto which I find rather un engaging. Sad to see them go
I used to think that way about 10 years ago. No use fighting something as inevitable as death and taxes. The manual is dead, even race cars don't have them anymore.
I agree. I enjoy them for the fun factor. Obviously automatics are faster now which is great since they are more convenient
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