[lens]

Originally Posted by metallicpea

Of course there are exceptions, but on this planet, a vast majority won't get stuck with RWD and good snows. I get more snow here than the average cold weather states in the US, and have not gotten stuck in snow on RWD and snows in the 25 years I have been running such a combo.

You and I have disagreed on this topic before. But my short statement is still, unless you get extreme snow (I'll give you 30cm per week) or have snow combined with hills. I would always buy RWD. AWD gives most drivers more confidence than they should have to go, then get into trouble when turning or stopping at speed when it is much more dangerous.

What tires do you run in the winter?

Michelin PA4

Oh I know, I agree with you on that, lots of snow+hills= AWD, normal/more than average snow+minimum hills= Any WD with good snows.

The reason why I chose performance winters is because I tend to drive to cities that have less snow for the holidays and once a month to see family and friends. I see more dry and wet and slush there than I see snow. Where I live, there's alot of snow but they plow the main roads pretty good but the parkings and entryways aren't and the PA4 are way more than enough with AWD. And once it snows alot, there are times it doesn't (normally in feb/march) where it's just extremely cold (-20C to -40C) and it doesn't snow anymore so the roads become dry.

[metallicpea]

Originally Posted by YuminNuman

I will say the suspension on this car is really pedestrian. It body rolls and understeers like a pig. For some people it probably handles 'amazing' but from what I'm used to it's closer to a cadillac. It definitely needs some sway bars, slightly stiffer springs, and high end dampers. Probably bushings as well.

The fact that a 300+hp car would come with 225 wide tires is also a joke.

The x-drive is working against you on this. Heavier, taller and softer don't help.

[metallicpea]

Originally Posted by chaungo

Michelin PA4

Oh I know, I agree with you on that, lots of snow+hills= AWD, normal/more than average snow+minimum hills= Any WD with good snows.

The reason why I chose performance winters is because I tend to drive to cities that have less snow for the holidays and once a month to see family and friends. I see more dry and wet and slush there than I see snow. Where I live, there's alot of snow but they plow the main roads pretty good but the parkings and entryways aren't and the PA4 are way more than enough with AWD. And once it snows alot, there are times it doesn't (normally in feb/march) where it's just extremely cold (-20C to -40C) and it doesn't snow anymore so the roads become dry.

With deep snow, snows and performance snows aren't too different. Performance snows really suffer on the ice and slushy stuff. Not as much grip when the road surface is really slick.

I've not run those. Tread design looks great, but usually with performance snows the actual rubber compound isn't as soft or porous - which is what gives the grip on cold hard, slick surfaces. It is also what makes the tires soft and wayward on dry pavement and what makes them wear fast. Always a give and take.

[B58 parts]

I've gotten stuck with AWD and snows twice. Then again I don't have the best judgement and often try to rush around when I should just stay in. "I think we got this..."

But yeah, drifting is dumb, and the stock chassis is way softer than I expected. This is far from the best handling car I've ever driven. Well, I don't have sticky tires yet so it's maybe a bit early to say that, but the body roll and overall stiffness of the chassis is

Originally Posted by metallicpea

The x-drive is working against you on this. Heavier, taller and softer don't help.

This is true. The second 2 are in the cards for the summer... I'll take a little extra weight. I like the driving characteristics of AWD day to day, winter, and even on the track, so the extra weight is acceptable to me. The chassis can be coaxed a bit .. it needs to. If you want to talk weight on these cars, there's about 400 other places to start cutting from over the drivetrain.

[metallicpea]

Originally Posted by YuminNuman

I've gotten stuck with AWD and snows twice. Then again I don't have the best judgement and often try to rush around when I should just stay in. "I think we got this..."

But yeah, drifting is dumb, and the stock chassis is way softer than I expected. This is far from the best handling car I've ever driven. Well, I don't have sticky tires yet so it's maybe a bit early to say that, but the body roll and overall stiffness of the chassis is



This is true. The second 2 are in the cards for the summer... I'll take a little extra weight. I like the driving characteristics of AWD day to day, winter, and even on the track, so the extra weight is acceptable to me. The chassis can be coaxed a bit .. it needs to. If you want to talk weight on these cars, there's about 400 other places to start cutting from over the drivetrain.

For what it is, I am not totally dissapointed with the weight on my F30 (for it's size) Although it is bigger than I would like. My E46 weighed about 3,200 lbs - prob more with sunroof. And my 2016 320i without sunroof is about 3,300 lbs. But, the F30 is a much, much bigger car and has more gadgets on it, so the weight could certainly be worse. That being said, you can hear and feel it in how solid the build of the cars are. E46 was solid, F30 seems thin in comparison. Road noise, door shut, even little things like the glove box. Just not as solid, but so far good enough.

[B58 parts]

I agree. Relatively speaking, for a $55K USD car it is a rattle trap and there's lots of noise. They definitely cut the overall build quality down at some point. Well, maybe not 'quality' per se but 'solidness' of materials (what's the word I am looking for here...)

My buddy's E46 was much more tank like .. the tightness of the car was noticeably greater.

[lens]

Originally Posted by metallicpea

With deep snow, snows and performance snows aren't too different. Performance snows really suffer on the ice and slushy stuff. Not as much grip when the road surface is really slick.

I've not run those. Tread design looks great, but usually with performance snows the actual rubber compound isn't as soft or porous - which is what gives the grip on cold hard, slick surfaces. It is also what makes the tires soft and wayward on dry pavement and what makes them wear fast. Always a give and take.

TBH, I believe normal studless snows wear faster on dry pavement than performance do, I assume the performance is slightly more stiff on the dry which will give it slightly better treadlife in the dry, but worst grip on ice, snow.

[metallicpea]

Originally Posted by chaungo

TBH, I believe normal studless snows wear faster on dry pavement than performance do, I assume the performance is slightly more stiff on the dry which will give it slightly better treadlife in the dry, but worst grip on ice, snow.

Sorry my wording was confusing. It made sense to me when I wrote it

Performance snows really suffer on the ice and slushy stuff. Not as much grip when the road surface is really slick because they have a less soft and porous compound. This compound does handle and wear better on dry pavement.

Full (studless) snows have a very soft and porous compound that makes the cold, slick, slushy, icy grip unreal, but also makes them soft and wayward on dry pavement and makes them wear fast - although only if driven many months and run pretty hard. With my limited miles and aggression I get many, many seasons out of a set.

[metallicpea]

So we had our first snow today. Maybe 1/2" to 1" First snow with my half worn Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3 on staggered 18" set-up
They are not good in the snow. Worse than I would have thought. My winter set, Blizzak WS70 on 17" square set-up needs to go on tonight.

[bri1042]

Originally Posted by metallicpea

So we had our first snow today. Maybe 1/2" to 1" First snow with my half worn Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3 on staggered 18" set-up
They are not good in the snow. Worse than I would have thought. My winter set, Blizzak WS70 on 17" square set-up needs to go on tonight.

Ah, so it's not just me. Portland doesn't get that cold, we spend most of the winter with temps too high for Winter Tires so I went with All Seasons instead for my winter wheels last year. I picked the A/S 3+ over the DWS06's and ended up driving them through a lot of snow last year. I grew up on the other side of the lake from you and learned to drive on snow before I learned to drive on dry roads. I've gone through a lot of winters with all season tires before I moved west and I was not impressed with the A/S 3+'s last Winter. I like these tires on dry and wet roads, but they are not good in the snow at all.

[metallicpea]

Originally Posted by bri1042

Ah, so it's not just me. Portland doesn't get that cold, we spend most of the winter with temps too high for Winter Tires so I went with All Seasons instead for my winter wheels last year. I picked the A/S 3+ over the DWS06's and ended up driving them through a lot of snow last year. I grew up on the other side of the lake from you and learned to drive on snow before I learned to drive on dry roads. I've gone through a lot of winters with all season tires before I moved west and I was not impressed with the A/S 3+'s last Winter. I like these tires on dry and wet roads, but they are not good in the snow at all.

Mine are not the +. The plus I heard was better, but yeah, not impressed with snow traction. I put the Blizzaks on last night. All good now. Might get snow every day for the next few days and I'm driving into Michigan, so I missed the perfect time by 1 day, but glad I got a feel for these so I know not too push as much next year.

I like how super quiet the Blizzaks are. Makes you realize how much of the interior noise in this car comes from the road/tire noise vs wind noise.

I use the A/S 3s for summer now, but when they are shot I will likely try Firehawk Indy 500. They are inexpensive, look good, good test and customer ratings and might give me a little more steering feel.

[GenXer]

I have a RWD F36 430i GC but I'm regretting not having xDrive like my F48 X1 especially during bad weather. Granted I will probably be driving my full size 4x4 pick up truck with big knobby tires if the weather gets bad. But it would be nice to have the security of AWD.

RWD can be more spirited while making turns but I only make 22 turns during my 90 miles daily commute! The rest of the time is just miles and miles of straight road.

[Govbud]

xdrive has been great in the rain and light snow here in New England. I previously had an Audi Avant and would not own a RWD car except in Calif.

[ali820]

Agree with everything others have pointed out thus far, but if you must go down the x drive route, then the xDelete app is a must to regain a bit of the fun that's been lost.

Have your cake and eat it too!

[Logicoeur]

Rwd has its merits but xdrive is still surely very fun to drive. Coilovers and some other parts will net you more of that fun factor missing from the factory. And now with xdelete it's almost a no brainer. If you can add an lsd to that then what else could you ask for?

[ali820]

Originally Posted by Logicoeur

Rwd has its merits but xdrive is still surely very fun to drive. Coilovers and some other parts will net you more of that fun factor missing from the factory. And now with xdelete it's almost a no brainer. If you can add an lsd to that than what else could you ask for?

What's the all in cost on that LSD parts and labor?

[EDWYER]

Originally Posted by ali820

Have your cake and eat it too!

Originally Posted by Logicoeur

what else could you ask for?

Yep.

[Logicoeur]

Originally Posted by ali820

What's the all in cost on that LSD parts and labor?

Got one on eBay for a bit over the firesale price, but figuring I'll have a pseudo M5 with the addition of xdelete, it makes it worth it for me. It will hold me over until I add coilovers and some power mods.

Calling around to local shops the install varies from 350-500 on the high end, and that's just for labor.

So all in this is near $1K installed, not including parts/labor right after break-in.

[mcintoshf30]

Originally Posted by Logicoeur

Got one on eBay for a bit over the firesale price, but figuring I'll have a pseudo M5 with the addition of xdelete, it makes it worth it for me. It will hold me over until I add coilovers and some power mods.

Calling around to local shops the install varies from 350-500 on the high end, and that's just for labor.

So all in this is near $1K installed, not including parts/labor right after break-in.

You're still able to use xDrive mode once the LSD is installed correct? Are there any front LSD options? I'll be fine with xDelete and a rear LSD but a front LSD would be sick

[Logicoeur]

No front diffs that I am aware of. Since the MP LSD is mechanical and requires no coding on install, we are safe to assume that Xdrive intervenes somewhere above the 30% max slip the LSD provides. Eg. Xdrive needs to see +50% slip to send torque to other wheels.

[johnung]

Originally Posted by Logicoeur

Got one on eBay for a bit over the firesale price, but figuring I'll have a pseudo M5 with the addition of xdelete, it makes it worth it for me. It will hold me over until I add coilovers and some power mods.

Calling around to local shops the install varies from 350-500 on the high end, and that's just for labor.

So all in this is near $1K installed, not including parts/labor right after break-in.

FYI- based on my experience and a friend's experience with the LSD installations on our cars, there are few dealers or independents who are experienced with swapping out a rear differential on an F3X. Some that say they are experienced are assuming that it's the same as swapping a diff on the previous generation. The F3X is more difficult and requires two special tools.

In the previous generation the half shafts unbolted from the diff. Now they are each held on by a tiny clip in a groove.. A special tool wraps around the connection to pop the clip out. The clips are only about $2 each but buy them ahead of time so your install isn't delayed for lack of a clip. Also the LSD takes a liter of a special fluid. Gotta have it to check level as last install step. Need it at 1200 mile drain and replace anyway. I have a photo of LSD oil but bugs have prevented photo attachments lately.

The center drive shaft requires a special 50mm open wrench with a 2-3 foot handle for torque. Dealers charge 3.5 hours which in my area is $560. Dealers are more likely to have the correct tools and not butcher the car with make shift stuff.

Whomever you use I suggest really talking to the tech who will be doing it, not the service writer who BS's for a living. Make sure you are comfortable that he knows what he is doing and has done an F3X diff before. It's not like they can get another part easily if they screw it up.

LSD is amazing. I noticed it immediately as I entered the first turn. I must have been getting wheel spin before, even at low speeds, but not realized it until it was suddenly gone. Actually helps to make the steering feel sharper/heavier and more in control. (Steering feel also helped by my strut brace and wider 245/40-18 Michelin PS4S tires)

Good luck with your LSD. Hope this helps!

[Logicoeur]

Yes I've been asking everyone if they have the two specific tools. Hopefully will have it installed the end of this week assuming the redline 75w-140 I ordered arrives sometime before Thursday.


Do you have the KC strut bar or someone else's?