[casualDIYer]

Now on my third 3 series and, as expected, the doors are starting their decent into creak 'hell' just a couple of months after the warranty ran out. Perfect timing. Of course I have applied gummi pfledge (useless), carbaflo (which is also useless when the weather is hot and humid), silicone remover (which removes silicone but not squeaks), 'teflon' tape (to be honest I used the cheap knock-off stuff, not 3M's US$200+ per roll magic tape) which worked for a little bit then . . . useless, paint sealant (ineffective after a short while), so now looking at replacing the window guides. The part is number 1 in the diagram below



I asked the dealer to give me a quote for the two rear doors and got back a number so high I thought selling the car and buying something else would be cheaper. The dealer is asking roughly $500 per door, pre-tax.

I read over BMW's instructions on how to replace the rear window guides and it is indeed involved. No one step being too difficult but all adding up to an epic adventure of taking most of the door, except the handle and glass, apart. BMW references another magical chemical call G14 lubricant, which is applied to the back of the seals. I wonder, would getting G14 and re-lubing the back of the top of the seals work? Has anyone here heard of G14? It has a LOT of warnings attached to it. I'm starting to think it's not the seal/guide that dries out but the G14.

[madwolfa]

Yeppp. This driving me nuts. For now I'm just trying the easy path of cleaning/conditioning the seals, which seems to help, but only temporarily.

[casualDIYer]

It would be hilarious if all this time, tapes, cleaners, solutions, etc all applied to the outside of the gasket were all in vain when in fact it might have been the G14 lubricant applied to the inside of the gasket that dried out.

G14 isn't exactly something you get at the local big box store. It's about US$70 or roughly 51 euros for a 900ml bottle which could probably do about a 100 cars. Still tempted to try it along the top of the gasket through. It seems I could avoid the whole door disassembly just to reapply to the top only.

[casualDIYer]

If I pull out the window/channel guide, do I need to remove the weather strip first to put the guide back in again? Or can I use a prise tool to push it back in?

[casualDIYer]

Problem 1 solved. BMW refers to these outer seals as Windows Guides or Window Channels. But neither term is widely used more likely these are called Windows Seals. Haven't yet found any F30 videos but did find E90 and E39 videos explaining the process. The parts look a lot a like

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TSwoDTHSp0


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFxgutoSXiE

Another proud owner of a perfectly fine automobile whose beautiful silence is ruined each time his car drives over a pebble and the doors creak. Lovely.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uq8t2vP7064

[Runner340]

Easy fix if this is what your experiencing. I did the cleaning and seal conditioning repeatedly but the door irritating seal creaking keep coming back after 3-4 car washes. I found this video which solved to issue completely:

Tape used from Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/J-V-Convertin...9836934&sr=8-1

[casualDIYer]

Originally Posted by Runner340

Easy fix if this is what your experiencing. I did the cleaning and seal conditioning repeatedly but the door irritating seal creaking keep coming back after 3-4 car washes. I found this video which solved to issue completely:

Tape used from Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/J-V-Convertin...9836934&sr=8-1

Thanks for the video. I have indeed tried that tape and . . . after a while it too failed. An added bonus was the tape was hell to get off leaving behind a sticky residue that took effort to remove. There is also a 3M tape which also works well but it too has a time limit.

In looking into the issue in detail, from what I can tell, it is the material of the window guide / window channel / door seal that degrades not the door frame or trim or even inner seals. I spoke to an engineer friend who works at a plant that makes these seals. The material is a kind of rubber plastic combo, a kind of a holy grail material for a car maker. Rubber is almost like a super material. The modern world would be a lot less modern without it. The problem is it's price, practically 20 times that of plastic. A combo, combining the benefits of rubber but at the price of plastic would be fantastic. The hard part of making such a material is tight environment control, especially temperature.

The outside seal is exposed to the sun, rain, external contaminants, etc. Depending on each car, where that car lives most of it's life, that issue may happen in a few years, or many years.

Ultimately, I believe once the creaks start, temporary mitigation can be found with reasonable low cost solutions but ultimately, the seal becomes too damaged to be saved and needs replacement.

Now I remember why I enjoyed leasing . . .

[Runner340]

Originally Posted by casualDIYer

Thanks for the video. I have indeed tried that tape and . . . after a while it too failed. An added bonus was the tape was hell to get off leaving behind a sticky residue that took effort to remove. There is also a 3M tape which also works well but it too has a time limit.

In looking into the issue in detail, from what I can tell, it is the material of the window guide / window channel / door seal that degrades not the door frame or trim or even inner seals. I spoke to an engineer friend who works at a plant that makes these seals. The material is a kind of rubber plastic combo, a kind of a holy grail material for a car maker. Rubber is almost like a super material. The modern world would be a lot less modern without it. The problem is it's price, practically 20 times that of plastic. A combo, combining the benefits of rubber but at the price of plastic would be fantastic. The hard part of making such a material is tight environment control, especially temperature.

The outside seal is exposed to the sun, rain, external contaminants, etc. Depending on each car, where that car lives most of it's life, that issue may happen in a few years, or many years.

Ultimately, I believe once the creaks start, temporary mitigation can be found with reasonable low cost solutions but ultimately, the seal becomes too damaged to be saved and needs replacement.

Now I remember why I enjoyed leasing . . .

Thanks for the heads up on the longevity of the tape. My cars are garaged when not in use. So far it's been a NE year with the tape and it's still holding up for me. I did have to replace one section of the tape due to the tape lifting off the dogleg corner for the rear door trim. My bad in stretching the tape too much and/or not cleaning the wax off the trim piece well. But to your point the glue from the tape was a PITA to clean off with isopropyl alcohol.

All cars have their warts. I buy my cars outright and tend to hold on to them for 10 or more years. I do 80%+ of the repairs and servicing myself. I've owned domestic, Asian and European cars over the years and keep going back to BMW's due to the plethora of online information and parts available which works for my OCD tendencies. I only have the dealer do warranty repairs and service if it's cost effective and convenient for me.

[Wires]

Hmmm... mine creaked like a mofo when the car was new, and it was the weatherstripping against the shadowline trim. One treatment of gummi pfledge (left the doors open so it could dry), and I've no issues for the past 3.5 years.

But yeh, pretty annoying if it's still happening.

[casualDIYer]

I went ahead and lubed the back of the window guide / outer door seal with Carbaflo. I also lubed the window channel itself, and for now, the creaking has come to a complete stop.






I also discovered a detail about the seal

EPDM + TPE

Ethylene Propylene Diene Monomer (artificial rubber) + Thermal Plastic Elasomer (it's rubber but acts in some way similar to plastic)



A lot lubricants, including silicone, are fine as lubricant for EPDM. Unfortunately from what I've found, silicone can degrade TPE. It turns out TPE is used for 'adults' toys (type it in Google and get a surprise). I take it the users of these products are not advised to use silicone but water based lubes. This makes makes finding a lubricant for dried out seals somewhat more difficult as it needs to work with both EPDM and TPE. Carbaflo seems to work but I've noticed in using it in the past it doesn't last long. It may be slightly water soluble so something else may be in order.

I wonder if BMW's mysterious G14 is a miracle lubricant. G14 eventually evaporates according to BMW's instructions.

[casualDIYer]

Looks like Krytox will fit the bill. Compatible with EPDM and TPE

[casualDIYer]

Went ahead and tried Krytox. It does work but only for a little while. It seems if the window guides are exposed to silicone, it seems the TPE in them will begin to break down. The only option now is replacement and the use of BMW lubricant G14, the only lube BMW authorizes for window guides. I will go this route but may take a break until the spring. As the weather gets colder, the problem seems to diminish, or at least is quieter.

[casualDIYer]

Just prior to the start of summer of 2022 the creak came back. On days at +25 C, all 4 doors started a symphony of creakiness. Even people who had been in the car for the first time noticed the doors creaked and wondered if the doors were alright or they needed to lean toward the centre of the car when in a turn.

So, I bought 4 window guides (part #7 in the diagram above, at a cost of CAD $130 each), and a dealer was able to give me $10 worth of the mysterious G14 lubricant, the latest (and apparently only) qualified lube for installing these guides, and replaced all 4 guides.

And the creakiness is GONE GONE GONE GONE. Nary a peep out of any door. The car has gone from torture device to luxo cruiser. I could hug a tree. This will go down in my memory as THE BEST REPAIR, EVER, made to a car.

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by casualDIYer

Just prior to the start of summer of 2022 the creak came back. On days at +25 C, all 4 doors started a symphony of creakiness. Even people who had been in the car for the first time noticed the doors creaked and wondered if the doors were alright or they needed to lean toward the centre of the car when in a turn.

So, I bought 4 window guides (part #7 in the diagram above, at a cost of CAD $130 each), and a dealer was able to give me $10 worth of the mysterious G14 lubricant, the latest (and apparently only) qualified lube for installing these guides, and replaced all 4 guides.

And the creakiness is GONE GONE GONE GONE. Nary a peep out of any door. The car has gone from torture device to luxo cruiser. I could hug a tree. This will go down in my memory as THE BEST REPAIR, EVER, made to a car.

Wow what a journey! I do wonder if applying G14 on the old guides can solve the issue or not.

[casualDIYer]

Originally Posted by bavarianride

Wow what a journey! I do wonder if applying G14 on the old guides can solve the issue or not.

I wondered this as well. In using G14 I can tell you it's more like hand cream and less like a grease or other lubricant typically used in automotive applications. It is very easy to wash G14 off one's hands so it doesn't repel water very well. In using it to install the guides, one only has about 15-20mins to work with it before one need to apply more.

Not that I have any insider info but my guess would be that in using TPE for the guides, this limits what lubricants can be used on them. In searching for info on TPE, it seems most lubes for this kind of material are water based. It would be my guess that G14 is also a water based lubricant as well and, while working for a short while, may not have a lasting effect on squeakiness. That being said, trying it would likely have no negative effect. You could ask your locale dealership if they would sell you a 70-100ml container of it so you could try it. An entire 900ml bottle is roughly USD $100.

[sspade]

Gummi Pflege Stift worked for me.

[casualDIYer]

Originally Posted by sspade

Gummi Pflege Stift worked for me.

That was one of the first chemicals I tried. It worked for a bit but the creaks came back. Given it's low price compared to 4 new guides, if one is just starting to get the creak, I'd try it. But if it doesn't work, in my experience, swap the guide for a new one. A mechanic buddy at BMW told me a lot of cars came in for guide replacements under warranty. Yikes! That's less than 4 years. He also mentioned he's never seen the problem on the chrome trim line. Always on the black shadow line. Perhaps the extra heat breaks down the material? I wonder if doing a wrap in matt black would keep the shadow line cooler while preserving the look.

[B58 parts]

I've had all four windows down for the past several months, now it is turning cold, windows up. What a rattle trap pile of crap. I will do the gummi pledge all around again, it's been a while. That helps for about a month.

I was searching for a real solution to this, by now, and thanks. I will probably order 4 of those and try to source this g14 chemical. Just part #7? Not #1? I assume you have to take the whole door apart. Still, totally worth it, if it's the real solution.

[casualDIYer]

Originally Posted by YuminNuman

I've had all four windows down for the past several months, now it is turning cold, windows up. What a rattle trap pile of crap. I will do the gummi pledge all around again, it's been a while. That helps for about a month.

I was searching for a real solution to this, by now, and thanks. I will probably order 4 of those and try to source this g14 chemical. Just part #7? Not #1? I assume you have to take the whole door apart. Still, totally worth it, if it's the real solution.

The part number is 83-23-2-360-412, called Lubricant G14 - BMW. BMW writes

"Lubricant G14 is the only BMW-approved product for installing window guide rubber. No micro damage to the rubber during installation. Caution: only for a short-term lubricating effect. Not suitable for long-term lubrication."

Do not doubt these words. G14 is more like hand cream than car grease. It evaporates and is only used to install the window guides not lube the seals on a regular basis. "Short-term" means less than 30 minutes

You will:
a) Need only 50-100ml of G14. Ask if the dealer will sell you a limited quantity. Bring a small 50-100ml, clean, container, with a cap (I used the same container they sell crazy glue in). Keep it sealed when not in use. BMW dealers will charge a customer for a limited amount of G14 when they do a window guide replacement so it's a familiar idea to charge for a portion rather than an entire 900ml bottle.

b) Need to remove the front side mirrors

c) Inside door card

d) Have a rubber hammer on hand to help knock the seals into place

e) Remove the outer door finishers

You will not
a) Need to remove the vapour barrier on the inside of the door.

b) Not remove the window

Since replacement
1) Zero rattles.

2) Only water and a micro fibre cloth is used to clean the window guides and door sills

3) Only neutral PH, ZERO silicone shampoos are used to clean the car (I use Adams Car Wash but Meguiars also avoids silicone. Want to sell car shampoo to a body shop? No silicone!)

At first you might balk at spending almost $500 on Window guides but when your car goes silent (or you start to notice other rattles) you'll think it was the best $500 you ever spent on a car.

Good luck with the Gummi. I hear the formula changed and is less effective but it's not hella' expensive so why not give it a try. But if it fails, fu*k it! Swap the window guides.

Keep in mind, BMW authorized body shops also know how to swap those guides as well. They might do the job for less than the dealership.

Get your sanity back and good luck.

[B58 parts]

Thanks for the info, and hopefully solving one of the worst manufacturing defects of the car. I'll probably give it a go after the gummi dries out. The door parts are currently under 100 USD, not bad.

I kinda trust myself to do it, I do have a terrible track record with plastic clips, wiring harness clips.

This is a super widespread problem, there should be more interest in this fix

[Salty B.]

Weird. My doors creaked within a few months of ownership, but I applied Gummi Pflege a couple of times that first year and no creaks since. It's been about eight years now.

But it does not get that cold here so maybe it's temperature-dependent.

[casualDIYer]

It seems to be much more common on the 3 series than the 5 or 7 series but then again, there are far more 3 series than 5s or 7s. Maybe there is an inconsistency during manufacture.