[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by GAB0

CA has begun to verify the check sum of DME's (ECU's) and comparing them to a database compiled over the years. The database is populated using information provided by the OEM manufacturers, in this case BMW. In other words, just like the dealership. California can now detect the DME was tampered with.

In my opinion, if relocking the DME keeps the dealership from being able to detect tampering, then technically CA smog test stations wouldn't be able to either.

Can anyone confirm relocking the DME keeps the dealership from detecting tampering?

What is your source of information that the OBD2 smog check is going to check the DME software? "Comparing them to a database compiled over the years" seems a little questionable since there are numerous software versions. They would need to have a comprehensive list of all possible OEM software versions to compare against to prevent cars with stock programming from being flagged. Not saying its impossible, but would like to "fact check".

You aren't going to get a comfirmation that relocking the DME keeps the dealership from detecting tampering - just because one person says they did so and had a warranty claim, or otherwise claim that their previous tune was not detected, does not mean it will work for someone else. Also, it may not be the dealer themselves that detects any flashing/tampering has been done, but more often BMW NA if warranty claims are escalated above the local dealer level.

So, we would really need more information on what exactly the OBD2 is going to check/compare/etc to know whether or not flashing back to stock, relocking the DME, and/or resetting flash counter is going to do what is needed.

[GAB0]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

What is your source of information that the OBD2 smog check is going to check the DME software? "Comparing them to a database compiled over the years" seems a little questionable since there are numerous software versions. They would need to have a comprehensive list of all possible OEM software versions to compare against to prevent cars with stock programming from being flagged. Not saying its impossible, but would like to "fact check".

You aren't going to get a comfirmation that relocking the DME keeps the dealership from detecting tampering - just because one person says they did so and had a warranty claim, or otherwise claim that their previous tune was not detected, does not mean it will work for someone else. Also, it may not be the dealer themselves that detects any flashing/tampering has been done, but more often BMW NA if warranty claims are escalated above the local dealer level.

So, we would really need more information on what exactly the OBD2 is going to check/compare/etc to know whether or not flashing back to stock, relocking the DME, and/or resetting flash counter is going to do what is needed.

I should have been more clear since it technically isn't a check sum but rather a CAL ID and CVN Table. If you look hard enough you'll find more information. My source is CARB itself fyi. I conducted research extensively, leading to the sale of my previous vehicle since CA is making it impossible to modify vehicles in the manner I had.

https://ww2.arb.ca.gov/resources/doc.../obd-resources

Please see the CAL ID and CVN Table sessions. As you'll see car manufacturers have to provide the information to CARB. That means any current or future versions of the DME CAL ID and CVN Table. Using this information they can determine if your DME has been tampered with.

I'm genuinely surprised this isn't common knowledge for us car enthusiast in CA. Then again it began to be enforced a couple of years ago.

[itsrichierich]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

Interesting, they didnt say why? I wont have to get smogged until 2023 but knowing this, i will probably play it safe and flash back to stock and relock the DME when the time comes.

No, but I think it might be because I didn't relock my DME. When I flashed it back to stock, I didn't relock the DME and I think that's why they flagged me. But I can't verify that because no one has given me information. The lady from the State Ref said I had to do a "over the phone" discussion about why I got flagged and when I can setup my appointment to get inspected. This is an issue for me because I have someone who put a deposit on the car and is waiting for me to finish this. The phone appointment was for the 25th of this month. This was 2 weeks ago. Last Thursday I get a call that I can skip the "over the phone" and go straight to the State Ref this Friday morning which is great. I flashed my car back to stock again but this time relocked the DME. I got all my monitors to run besides the EVAP which I feel like is going to fuck me if I can't get that monitor to run. Based on what I read, I need ALL monitors to run, even though I can pass smog without EVAP monitor. I tried calling State Ref department back this morning but was on hold for 45 minutes and couldn't wait any longer.

Originally Posted by GAB0

CA has begun to verify the check sum of DME's (ECU's) and comparing them to a database compiled over the years. The database is populated using information provided by the OEM manufacturers, in this case BMW. In other words, just like the dealership. California can now detect the DME was tampered with.

In my opinion, if relocking the DME keeps the dealership from being able to detect tampering, then technically CA smog test stations wouldn't be able to either.

Can anyone confirm relocking the DME keeps the dealership from detecting tampering?

I can't confirm this. For me, I didn't care if the dealership could see that I have a tune or not because I was never going to go after them for anything, so I never flashed back to stock and relock DME when I went in for basic stuff.

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by GAB0

I should have been more clear since it technically isn't a check sum but rather a CAL ID and CVN Table. If you look hard enough you'll find more information. My source is CARB itself fyi. I conducted research extensively, leading to the sale of my previous vehicle since CA is making it impossible to modify vehicles in the manner I had.

https://ww2.arb.ca.gov/resources/doc.../obd-resources

Please see the CAL ID and CVN Table sessions. As you'll see car manufacturers have to provide the information to CARB. That means any current or future versions of the DME CAL ID and CVN Table. Using this information they can determine if your DME has been tampered with.

I'm genuinely surprised this isn't common knowledge for us car enthusiast in CA. Then again it began to be enforced a couple of years ago.

Thanks for the link and info. I did some independent searches and came across results on multiple platforms that this is now true. Hasn't applied to my BMW yet since its a 2015, but ive been dealing with smog on my 3000gt for 14 years, although that car is 1991 so its a totally different ball game getting it to pass while catless.

Here's a F80 thread for anyone wondering: https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1724858

And a BAR reference: https://www.bar.ca.gov/ARSC/Newslett..._Modifications

Bottom line is that yes, in California as of summer last year, you will need to reinstall your stock tune and relock the DME (in addition to having the hardware needed for emission monitors, etc). That should be enough as it doesnt sound like the check will be able to determine if the car was historically reprogrammed (like a flash counter), but just that it has programming from the approved list when tested.

EDIT: The other thing worth nothing is that this would be a major concern if you have a upgraded HPFP that requires the flash option to function properly because you would likely be in a catch 22 situation, unable to flash back to stock even temporarily.

[GAB0]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

Thanks for the link and info.

EDIT: The other thing worth nothing is that this would be a major concern if you have a upgraded HPFP that requires the flash option to function properly because you would likely be in a catch 22 situation, unable to flash back to stock even temporarily.

You're welcome. For those of us in CA it simply means unless you are willing to revert to stock every other year you are stuck with stock turbo and stage 2 mapping.

On a different note; Do you know Alan from BTS tuning?

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by GAB0

You're welcome. For those of us in CA it simply means unless you are willing to revert to stock every other year you are stuck with stock turbo and stage 2 mapping.

On a different note; Do you know Alan from BTS tuning?

Well any stock frame turbo upgrade like a PS2 should be fine. Such a turbo upgrade in itself will not affect emissions or monitors, nor does it look any different to a visual inspection. It should also run fine on stock tune. The issue is really for something like a XDI or dorch HPFP that wont run without a corresponding software change. Aside from that as long as you have your stock tune file you should be able to run any tune in the interim and flash back to stock as needed.

The other thing i have started wondering about is XHP. I don't think its altering the DME programming, but hopefully someone confirms by going in with XHP installed with stock DME tune.

I don't know Alan.

[GAB0]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

Well any stock frame turbo upgrade like a PS2 should be fine. Such a turbo upgrade in itself will not affect emissions or monitors, nor does it look any different to a visual inspection. It should also run fine on stock tune. The issue is really for something like a XDI or dorch HPFP that wont run without a corresponding software change. Aside from that as long as you have your stock tune file you should be able to run any tune in the interim and flash back to stock as needed.

The other thing i have started wondering about is XHP. I don't think its altering the DME programming, but hopefully someone confirms by going in with XHP installed with stock DME tune.

I don't know Alan.

Didn't realize the Pure Stage 2 could be used using the stock HPFP, that is great news (I'm new to BMW). Like you I'm wondering if the xhp flash would also need to be removed. Time will tell.

Alan is a local well respected tuner and mechanic in the 3000GT community. I figured you might know him, but no worries.

[itsrichierich]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

The other thing i have started wondering about is XHP. I don't think its altering the DME programming, but hopefully someone confirms by going in with XHP installed with stock DME tune.

I will be that guy but I also don't want to delay the sell of my car. Now I am wondering if I should reflash my xHP to stock as well.

[GAB0]

Originally Posted by itsrichierich

I will be that guy but I also don't want to delay the sell of my car. Now I am wondering if I should reflash my xHP to stock as well.

As much as I would appreciate you testing it out...... If you are trying to sell I would flash everything back to stock.

[itsrichierich]

Originally Posted by GAB0

As much as I would appreciate you testing it out...... If you are trying to sell I would flash everything back to stock.

Based on xHP FAQ, they say dealers can't detect the xHP flash.

Anyone willing to reflash their xHP tune to stock and see if it messes with the monitors?

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by GAB0

Didn't realize the Pure Stage 2 could be used using the stock HPFP, that is great news (I'm new to BMW). Like you I'm wondering if the xhp flash would also need to be removed. Time will tell.

Alan is a local well respected tuner and mechanic in the 3000GT community. I figured you might know him, but no worries.

Yeah, PS2 is fine with stock HPFP, especially for pump gas, but of course you will run out of fuel before turbo if you start doing ethanol mixes or cranking up boost.

Oh yeah I am familiar with him from 3si, but didnt know the association with the tuning company. Never met him in person though, just very active on those forums.

Originally Posted by itsrichierich

Based on xHP FAQ, they say dealers can't detect the xHP flash.

Anyone willing to reflash their xHP tune to stock and see if it messes with the monitors?

I saw the same thing, and i also saw the discussion on this thread. https://www.2addicts.com/forums/show....php?t=1753798

As far as resetting monitors, I am pretty sure a complete reflash to stock is going to clear all codes and simultaneously reset monitors... I know the DME tunes do, but can't say for certain with XHP. The last step is always clearing codes and resetting everything though.

[GAB0]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

Yeah, PS2 is fine with stock HPFP, especially for pump gas, but of course you will run out of fuel before turbo if you start doing ethanol mixes or cranking up boost.

Oh yeah I am familiar with him from 3si, but didnt know the association with the tuning company. Never met him in person though, just very active on those forums.

I'm thinking of going with a TTE460. I've already gone down the rabbit hole a few times in the past. Running E85, 25 psi and blah blah blah. This time around I just want a friendly daily driver with a little kick.

I figure you would have heard of Alan.

To the OP sorry for deviating your thread.

[itsrichierich]

Just got back from the State Ref, passed and paid $8.75 for the inspection/smog.

I left the xHP tune on and it was never questioned by the tech.

[GAB0]

Originally Posted by itsrichierich

Just got back from the State Ref, passed and paid $8.75 for the inspection/smog.

I left the xHP tune on and it was never questioned by the tech.

Great news! Thanks so much for sharing. Did the State Ref simply run the OBD2 port diagnostics or was it a visual only?

[itsrichierich]

Originally Posted by GAB0

Great news! Thanks so much for sharing. Did the State Ref simply run the OBD2 port diagnostics or was it a visual only?

It was both, he started with a visual and made his way into the OBD2 port diagnostics.

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by itsrichierich

It was both, he started with a visual and made his way into the OBD2 port diagnostics.

So just to confirm, you:

Removed all hardware mods, putting car back to stock. Was anything left on aftermarket?

Flashed back to stock and relocked the DME using BM3. Any other special stuff like resetting flash counter to 0? (MHD has this as an option now).

[itsrichierich]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

So just to confirm, you:

Removed all hardware mods, putting car back to stock. Was anything left on aftermarket?

Flashed back to stock and relocked the DME using BM3. Any other special stuff like resetting flash counter to 0? (MHD has this as an option now).

I removed my Turner intake and catless downpipe. I left my MST inlet, charge pipe, intercooler and turbo to intercooler chargepipe on the car. Also left my xHP tune on and on stage 3

I reflashed to stock map and relocked my DME using BM3. I did not have any other piggyback system and etc, just BM3.

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by itsrichierich

I removed my Turner intake and catless downpipe. I left my MST inlet, charge pipe, intercooler and turbo to intercooler chargepipe on the car. Also left my xHP tune on and on stage 3

I reflashed to stock map and relocked my DME using BM3. I did not have any other piggyback system and etc, just BM3.

Lol, that's funny but good news regarding the other mods. The main issue i might have is my CP is wrapped in gold heat reflective tape so its obviously not stock, although i could just say i wrapped the stock one i guess?

Thanks for the additional info though. I know what approach i will use when the time comes.

[itsrichierich]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

Lol, that's funny but good news regarding the other mods. The main issue i might have is my CP is wrapped in gold heat reflective tape so its obviously not stock, although i could just say i wrapped the stock one i guess?

Thanks for the additional info though. I know what approach i will use when the time comes.

Honestly, it may come down to the tech. But he visually inspected every aspect of the car. I know he saw my chargepipe and turbo inlet for sure but didn't say anything. Did he care? Maybe, maybe not. But I was sweet talking to him the entire time so I was on his good side lol.

Maybe the other parts didn't matter because they aren't related to CARB emission stuff? Not too sure. I thought the inlet was going to be the biggest issue since the logo was right there. I also read on some other forums that that has been flagged but it didn't mention state/county they were in.

I think the most important part is to relock the DME. I think my mistake was flashing it back to stock but not relocking it and it was flagged when I took it to get smogged. Now I get to install everything back on and sell the car.

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by itsrichierich

Honestly, it may come down to the tech. But he visually inspected every aspect of the car. I know he saw my chargepipe and turbo inlet for sure but didn't say anything. Did he care? Maybe, maybe not. But I was sweet talking to him the entire time so I was on his good side lol.

Maybe the other parts didn't matter because they aren't related to CARB emission stuff? Not too sure. I thought the inlet was going to be the biggest issue since the logo was right there. I also read on some other forums that that has been flagged but it didn't mention state/county they were in.

I think the most important part is to relock the DME. I think my mistake was flashing it back to stock but not relocking it and it was flagged when I took it to get smogged. Now I get to install everything back on and sell the car.

Oh yeah, it definitely will depend on the person. I have always assumed the state ref to be the worst case scenario, though. I am not planning to uninstall my inlet or anything for that matter when going in for a normal check. But i will flash back to stock, relock the DME, and make sure all emission monitors are ready. Thats why i bought the fabspeed DP, after all.

[GAB0]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

Oh yeah, it definitely will depend on the person. I have always assumed the state ref to be the worst case scenario, though. I am not planning to uninstall my inlet or anything for that matter when going in for a normal check. But i will flash back to stock, relock the DME, and make sure all emission monitors are ready. Thats why i bought the fabspeed DP, after all.

Doing the same here come 2022.