[kern417]

Originally Posted by MacklinUSOB

https://arstechnica.com/features/201...l-about-tires/

ignoring articles or whatever else you want to reference, all you need is a technical understanding of how tires work to realize that an all-season tire like the A/S3+ is designed to be ran in temps below freezing without losing a significant amount of traction. OP said that temps were 40* which is nothing to an all-season. even if it was wet, the A/S3+ will still do as well as many other summer tires. It's only downside is performance in snow/ice.

[MacklinUSOB]

Originally Posted by kern417

ignoring articles or whatever else you want to reference, all you need is a technical understanding of how tires work to realize that an all-season tire like the A/S3+ is designed to be ran in temps below freezing without losing a significant amount of traction. OP said that temps were 40* which is nothing to an all-season. even if it was wet, the A/S3+ will still do as well as many other summer tires. It's only downside is performance in snow/ice.

I tend to form my technical understanding without ignoring the remarks from certain sources, such as the Michelin, Bridgestone, and Nokian representatives in that article. That's just me.

[kern417]

Originally Posted by MacklinUSOB

I tend to form my technical understanding without ignoring the remarks from certain sources, such as the Michelin, Bridgestone, and Nokian representatives in that article. That's just me.

the reps are salesmen. i prioritize technical specs and independent tests and ignore any comments that don't align with basic principles.

i live in an area where it snows 4 times a year, and the snow doesn't stick around for more than a day if it does stick. but it has been in the single digits for weeks at a time, and i never had any issue with all-season tires losing grip or feeling unexpectedly dicey. if you really have experienced this or can show evidence that it's true, please share the tire brand and model. the whole purpose of an all-season is to use a compound that doesn't get significantly harder in sub-freezing temps. so if a rep from michelin told me that their all-season is only made for summer temps, i'd call bs. sounds like they just want to sell winter tires to people that don't need it.

[MacklinUSOB]

Originally Posted by kern417

i live in an area where it snows 4 times a year, and the snow doesn't stick around for more than a day if it does stick.

Okay, well you shouldn't get winter tires and you shouldn't preach to people who may actually need them that it's some sort of scam.

[kern417]

Originally Posted by MacklinUSOB

Okay, well you shouldn't get winter tires and you shouldn't preach to people who may actually need them that it's some sort of scam.

I never said it was a scam. I said that it's not needed just because temps drop below 50 degrees like the article said. They are important for snow and ice, and could perform better in negative temps (Fahrenheit) depending on the tire. But the conditions that the OP described (40 and dry) would probably go worse with winter tires due to the knobby tread that actually reduces grip. Ask anybody, you can tell that they don't perform as well the moment you put them on and have to adjust your driving.

If you go buy whatever a salesman tells you too, have at it. But no need to make OP think there is an issue with driving his tires when it's cold outside.

[BEAR-AvHistory]

Agree with kern417. A/S should be good for most places in the US that are not in the snow belt.

I drive summers 365/366. It can get into the low 20's here, snow on occasion & have never had issues with the summer tires grip.



On snow days I take one of the 4X4, my Ranger has snow rated off road tires, because the summers will not get out of the driveway.

Only rubber I felt go away under 40*F are the 100 treadware NITTO 555R on the COBRA. They are drive-able but sudden inputs will cause an Oh!! S**T moment. Since the car had no roof it does not see much if any 32*F weather but it has been tested in it. Did not crash & burn.

[bimmer456]

Warm temps here in SoCal. Did have my tires lose grip on some concrete but that's more slippery than black asphalt. Traction control came on but the car is balanced and no torque steer with rear drive. Still had enough traction to get a solid launch. Usually traction control keeps the tires just at the limit so you still can get a good launch except in the worst conditions or if you have a hellcat.

[Wires]

They market it was the "science of 7 degrees" in Canada. (That's 45F).

It's why they recommend winter tires in colder climates. I used to run high performance all seasons on my Acura, and when it hit 5C, there was a night/day difference in the amount of grip.

It's not that you cannot drive them in winter, but the traction on dry pavement is substantially lower when it's cold.

[kern417]

I have never experienced that with any economy all-season or high performance all-season. every car manufacturer sells cars with base all-season tires because they work across the seasons in most regions. i've had summers that grip fine down to 40F and my current bridgestones still grip fine at 30F. My all-seasons remain pliable down to the single digits and never felt a drop off like driving summer tires in sub-freezing temps. So like I said, idk what all-season tires you guys are using but there's a problem if an all-season tire only grips well in warm temps. Especially the AS3 that the OP has.

Like isn't it crazy that Michelin would recommend removing their all-seasons at 50F, but they go through the effort of improving traction in the snow?
http://www.bmwblog.com/2016/01/15/mi...at-2016-naias/

Michelin engineers have enhanced the tire’s compound technology to improve its snow traction without sacrificing its already incredible wet and dry traction.

28% better snow traction than the Michelin Pilot Sport A/S3

Michelin’s Helio+ Compound combined with unique biting edges in the tread grooves that grab loose snow to help acceleration and braking in winter conditions, resulting in confident mobility in cold and snow conditions

or this article where they claim michelin states that their tires are specifically designed to extend performance driving into cold temps, both wet and dry, but you should switch to winter tires when there is deep snow.
http://www.bmwblog.com/2013/01/22/bm...ot-sport-as-3/

From my time behind the wheels of a broad spectrum of cars at NOLA, it seems these all-seasons are best mounted on any car that is likely to encounter a mixture of hot and cold temperatures and dry and wet surfaces. The Michelin folks emphasized that these are considered 3 season tires – they are meant to extend the summer driving season deeper into the fall or winter in areas that get a lot of snow – but once there is deep snow, it’s best to switch to full winter tires.

To call them all-seasons almost seems disingenuous – they are just too good at everything: it seems to defy the category, which normally is mediocre at everything and good at nothing. In short, these are all-seasons that perform like summer performance tires yet can bring you safely home through light snow and slush.

hmm.

[harperium]

I'm the OP... i appreciate everyone's comments

I did autocross my first few times with all seasons (Conti DW06). They squealed a lot, and I learned after 2 days that all-seasons suck for autocross. But I guess it falsely set my expectations that squeal would always occur at the limit.

FYI One reason you don't want all-seasons for auto-cross (besides lack of summer grip) is that the tires chafe terribly. Like cheese on a cheese grater.

My next car (2020) will either be the new M3 or the new M5, and I will go with winters and summers. For my current 340, I have the AS3+ and a set of mediocre summer times on 17" wheels (Firestone Firehawk). I don't want to put money into more tires and wheels for this car...

[Wires]

I'm a little confused why you'd bother with summer tires on 17" rims. Only reason for summers is to toss the car around on dry pavement. With large sidewalls with the 17" rims, it almost seems pointless. You might as well AS3+ all year around....

[kern417]

Originally Posted by Wires

I'm a little confused why you'd bother with summer tires on 17" rims. Only reason for summers is to toss the car around on dry pavement. With large sidewalls with the 17" rims, it almost seems pointless. You might as well AS3+ all year around....

sidewall isn't that bad with the proper tire. it's usually better to go with a smaller wheel for performance driving. it weighs less and you can run less pressure in the tire to get more grip on warm days. there's a reason race cars run with a good amount of sidewall.

[eluded]

Originally Posted by kern417

ignoring articles or whatever else you want to reference, all you need is a technical understanding of how tires work to realize that an all-season tire like the A/S3+ is designed to be ran in temps below freezing without losing a significant amount of traction. OP said that temps were 40* which is nothing to an all-season. even if it was wet, the A/S3+ will still do as well as many other summer tires. It's only downside is performance in snow/ice.

I don't like this video. The s2000 should not be driven in the wet, nor on the dirt, nor when it is cold, nor on the ice, nor in the snow, etc.

So the other thing I didn't like in the video is during his braking test you can see his steering wheel going all over from his warped rotors.

And finally, yellow. Why? Why?