[isleaiw1]

Originally Posted by ZedsRedBaby

Mmm that's exactly the kind of thing we don't need. We're having a Teams chrimbo party and quiz tomorrow evening and that's it for the time being. Can't decide whether to get pissed and insult the boss or just play it safe. Does it count as being at work when I'm sat in my own house?

Yes. You can be fired for insulting the boss at an xmas party at a pub, its just the same (our HRD spelled this out before any on line team celebrations!)

We are having monthly exec meeting in person on 8th - 10 people in a meeting room for 60 in an empty hotel. We will pass on dinner out and just have a takeaway if anyone wants it. Not compulsory at all. I'll go because i need to do a round of hotels that have reopened and their COVID procedures so kill two birds and stay over and save a journey on a train.

My Mum and my son joining us for xmas so we meet the 3 household rule and we wont mix more than we have to on lead up. Pretty sure Mum has had it, which means I did too....

[ZedsRedBaby]

Originally Posted by isleaiw1

Yes. You can be fired for insulting the boss at an xmas party at a pub, its just the same (our HRD spelled this out before any on line team celebrations!)

We are having monthly exec meeting in person on 8th - 10 people in a meeting room for 60 in an empty hotel. We will pass on dinner out and just have a takeaway if anyone wants it. Not compulsory at all. I'll go because i need to do a round of hotels that have reopened and their COVID procedures so kill two birds and stay over and save a journey on a train.

My Mum and my son joining us for xmas so we meet the 3 household rule and we wont mix more than we have to on lead up. Pretty sure Mum has had it, which means I did too....

Thanks for confirming. Best not to get sacked just yet

[isleaiw1]

Originally Posted by ZedsRedBaby

Thanks for confirming. Best not to get sacked just yet

As I always say to my boss, at my age you dont get sacked and you dont retire, you wait for the cheque to go! And that can be a redundancy cheque or a golden hello at the new place (just in case he moves on and wants to take me with him!)

[ZedsRedBaby]

Originally Posted by isleaiw1

As I always say to my boss, at my age you dont get sacked and you dont retire, you wait for the cheque to go! And that can be a redundancy cheque or a golden hello at the new place (just in case he moves on and wants to take me with him!)

No redundancy cheque for contractors unfortunately. If it wasn't for the obscene day rate I'd fuck it off and get a proper job

[Fuse]

Help is at hand, Pfizer vaccine approved for use in the UK https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55145696

[mcscoobs]

Originally Posted by Fuse

Help is at hand, Pfizer vaccine approved for use in the UK https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55145696

Just watching GMB discuss it - it has to be stored at -80 degrees, and once the canister is opened, it all has to be used. Each canister can administer 500 doses. The logistics of this are going to be fun!

[isleaiw1]

Originally Posted by ZedsRedBaby

No redundancy cheque for contractors unfortunately. If it wasn't for the obscene day rate I'd fuck it off and get a proper job

I contracted for 6 years and then realised that I made more money long term by being an employee - annual bonuses, LTIPs and pension contributions make a big difference!

[Goneinsixtyseconds]

Originally Posted by mcscoobs

Just watching GMB discuss it - it has to be stored at -80 degrees, and once the canister is opened, it all has to be used. Each canister can administer 500 doses. The logistics of this are going to be fun!

It’s not ideal, but not sure how long term that is going to be. They’re already checking if the temperatures can be lowered in future.

Even now I believe that at once it gets to where it’s going to be administered, it can last up to five days at normal fridge temperatures.

[mcscoobs]

I may have missed it... has anyone said how long the immunity will last once the vaccine has been taken?

[isleaiw1]

Originally Posted by mcscoobs

I may have missed it... has anyone said how long the immunity will last once the vaccine has been taken?

I saw something that said they were planning for annual boosters....

[Ronstein]

Originally Posted by mcscoobs

I may have missed it... has anyone said how long the immunity will last once the vaccine has been taken?

I'm assuming that they won't know until they start testing antibody levels in the earliest adopters, which I would guess they'll be doing monthly on a trial sample. If antibody levels drop off in a linear manner, it should be easy to extrapolate when a booster is needed. If not, we may have to wait for many months to find out.

[mmarkk1990]

Re. the -80 temperature requirement. My brother (chemistry PHD) claims that is likely just because that is the temperature of dry ice. Not sure if that is the actual reason but it makes sense to my simple mind, plus should mean transport isn't as tough as we fear.

[CajunBMW]

Originally Posted by Goneinsixtyseconds

It’s not ideal, but not sure how long term that is going to be. They’re already checking if the temperatures can be lowered in future.

Even now I believe that at once it gets to where it’s going to be administered, it can last up to five days at normal fridge temperatures.

Yes it has to be stored at -80, but with dry ice the portable trays can be placed in distribution vans for outreach and will remain cold for days. So that is solvable. That is how we plan to do it for our outreach. For distribution within the hospital or other places it is easier.

[CajunBMW]

Originally Posted by mcscoobs

I may have missed it... has anyone said how long the immunity will last once the vaccine has been taken?

Normal CoV immunity lasts for 6-8 months they say at a minimum. My guess is longer. Remember that you have immunological memory once vaccinated or infected. Now no one really knows if this is life time immunity like the small pox, polio and MMR vaccines give. My guess is you may need boosters from time to time, but as long as the vaccine provides protection for a year it will be a success.

Also remember the vaccine may not completely protect someone from being infected, but will mostly prevent disease. There is some discussion about the nature of the immunoglobulins generated. For example it is argued that this type of vaccine will generate IgG which will prevent lower respiratory infection, but that you need IgA to prevent upper respiratory infections. Now not enough data yet exists so this point is unclear. But if you can avoid disease I am all for it....

I can tell you that if vaccinated you do get Abs quickly as my daughter was vaccinated as part of the trial and we checked and she is Ab positive for Abs to the SARSCOV2 spike protein.

Cheers

[CajunBMW]

Originally Posted by Ronstein

I'm assuming that they won't know until they start testing antibody levels in the earliest adopters, which I would guess they'll be doing monthly on a trial sample. If antibody levels drop off in a linear manner, it should be easy to extrapolate when a booster is needed. If not, we may have to wait for many months to find out.

You definitely get Abs. They will wain with time, but because of immunological memory you are good longer. We just have to get a booster with our year flu vaccine.

[CajunBMW]

Originally Posted by mmarkk1990

Re. the -80 temperature requirement. My brother (chemistry PHD) claims that is likely just because that is the temperature of dry ice. Not sure if that is the actual reason but it makes sense to my simple mind, plus should mean transport isn't as tough as we fear.

The -80 is the temp for most of the ultra cold freezers that we use in the research lab and or in medical settings. Yes dry ice works too. The idea is that the mRNA needs to be kept cold to be stable. My guess is the next big trials will be how long is it stable in a normal freezer or in a fridge (ice cold).... my guess is that will work fine, but they don't know for how long.

[pmgreenwood]

Originally Posted by CajunBMW

You definitely get Abs. They will wain with time, but because of immunological memory you are good longer. We just have to get a booster with our year flu vaccine.

Surely the hope must be once the civilised world gets vaccinated, the virus dies out and eventually is no longer an issue. I suppose another outcome is we start "strain chasing" with both virus and vaccines mutating

[CajunBMW]

Originally Posted by pmgreenwood

Surely the hope must be once the civilised world gets vaccinated, the virus dies out and eventually is no longer an issue. I suppose another outcome is we start "strain chasing" with both virus and vaccines mutating

The question becomes whether the virus is now endemic like the 4 benign CoVs. Meaning, has this virus spread so much that we can longer eradicate it. The 4 benign CoVs all jumped at some point from animals and became just another normal cycling viruses. There was a reported pandemic in 1890. This 1890 pandemic that has been reported was always thought to have been caused by the flu, but since this is a time when one of the four now benign CoVs jumped, it is now thought that this pandemic was a CoV pandemic. If so it gives us a model for a CoV going from animals to humans, causing serious disease and then becoming endemic. If this happens with the current CoV, it would cycle as a yearly or biannual cold like virus. For those vaccinated it would be no worse than any cold, for those unvaccinated, well it could be worse. With time the expectation is that all the kids and the younger generations will be infected/vaccinated and thus no longer susceptible to the serious effects. Anyway, some is just a guess, but based on history is very plausible.

[Goneinsixtyseconds]

Originally Posted by pmgreenwood

Surely the hope must be once the civilised world gets vaccinated, the virus dies out and eventually is no longer an issue. I suppose another outcome is we start "strain chasing" with both virus and vaccines mutating

I don’t think the realistic outcome is it disappearing. As far as I understand it most experts are expecting it to become a normal annual disease that is managed pretty much the same way we manage flu, with annual protection for the vulnerable.

[RobUK]

Good news about the BioNTech/Pfizer vaccine getting approval today especially has it has a reported efficacy of 95%.

Am a little more cautious about the Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine, particularly considering this article in the New Scientist a few days ago. Admittedly, it's still early days for O/AZ but will be interested how this pans out (seeing as Gov UK has ordered 100m doses).

[CajunBMW]

Originally Posted by Goneinsixtyseconds

I don’t think the realistic outcome is it disappearing. As far as I understand it most experts are expecting it to become a normal annual disease that is managed pretty much the same way we manage flu, with annual protection for the vulnerable.

Those are my sentiments as discussed above. I think it is too widespread to not be endemic now within the human population.

[ZedsRedBaby]

Originally Posted by isleaiw1

I contracted for 6 years and then realised that I made more money long term by being an employee - annual bonuses, LTIPs and pension contributions make a big difference!

Yeah, I quite like the flexibility but with IR35 being applied over-zealously the rewards aren't as great these days, so I may end up going perm if the right job comes along.