[brigade24]

Originally Posted by exE36M3

FaRKle! - thanks! What size tire and about how much room do you still have from fender to wheel? The 435i is tricky because my wheel well isn't like the other f30 cars. My best guess, in making the track 2" (?) wider than the F30, they left the fender well the same, thus all these fun tire rub issues.

good question. i wonder if the xdrive cars have different fenders that the rwd cars...i know the ride height is different because they have different springs. I can fit 275 wide all round. Just need a spacer and fender roll in the front. rears don't need anything.

[FaRKle!]

Originally Posted by brigade24

good question. i wonder if the xdrive cars have different fenders that the rwd cars...

The fenders are the same between RWD and xDrive.

[FaRKle!]

I finally got around to making a video on these camber bushings.

Originally Posted by Index

0:00 Intro
0:36 Components and assembly
5:23 Arm/components orientation in sub frame
6:34 How to adjust camber
8:32 Design positives
10:46 Design negatives
13:17 Closing remarks

[brigade24]

Originally Posted by FaRKle!

I finally got around to making a video on these camber bushings.

nice...i must of gotten an older version because one of the bushings, the collar is level with the poly.

I've run a few autox events with them now and I think i added about -1.3 deg...plus what the plates give me. front end really sticks. I would never need that much for lapping though.

[itsrichierich]

For the guys that run this, did you guys run this setup in conjunction with camber plates?


My goal is to get -2 degree camber up front and bought camber plates. However, I feel like I am going to regret the camber plates because of the NVH it's going to create. I should say I am ok with some NVH but not a tremendous amount.

[FaRKle!]

Originally Posted by itsrichierich

For the guys that run this, did you guys run this setup in conjunction with camber plates?

I ran this in conjunction with Millway street camber plates. There isn't an issue "doubling up."

[itsrichierich]

Originally Posted by FaRKle!

I ran this in conjunction with Millway street camber plates. There isn't an issue "doubling up."

Thanks Drew. I tried googling where to buy this but I can't find a website.

Considering this route versus the camber plate route as I am worried I am going to want to remove the camber plates down the road.

Edit: Nevermind, found it!

[madriz]

After many miles traveled, is there any noise, annoying vibration?
between alignment and alignment does it maintain the curvature?

[ktw]

I ran the KMAC camber bushings for ~9k mi with OE top hats. I never needed an alignment check in that time, but didn't notice any drift in alignment based on how the car drove or tire wear.

I thought the increase in NVH was very small other than there was eventually some squeaking over speed bumps. Typical for poly bushings from what I've read, and it could have been either the KMAC LCA bushings or the Powerflex TS bushings.

Just switched to VAC control arm bushings and Millway street camber plates. There's certainly more audible transmission of road imperfections with this setup, but it's also a step up in steering responsiveness. (If anyone wants the used KMAC bushings PM me.)

[itsrichierich]

I bought my KMAC adjustable bushings from FaRKle! not too long ago and finally got them dialed in. I own a RWD F30 335i and got up to -3 degrees of camber (while being lowered on Bilstein PSS10 that I bought from KTW). I have the front and rears at -2 degrees and am pretty happy about that.

So far, NVH is very little, or if any at all. I will say, my caster is on the positive side (I need to check my alignment sheet) and causes my tires to rub right where the fender and bumper meets. I need to find a way to adjust this... (Almost seems like I should of gone camber plates).

Originally Posted by ktw

I ran the KMAC camber bushings for ~9k mi with OE top hats. I never needed an alignment check in that time, but didn't notice any drift in alignment based on how the car drove or tire wear.

I thought the increase in NVH was very small other than there was eventually some squeaking over speed bumps. Typical for poly bushings from what I've read, and it could have been either the KMAC LCA bushings or the Powerflex TS bushings.

Just switched to VAC control arm bushings and Millway street camber plates. There's certainly more audible transmission of road imperfections with this setup, but it's also a step up in steering responsiveness. (If anyone wants the used KMAC bushings PM me.)

Did you buy the whole arm setup from VAC or just the bushings? Based on pictures, seems like they kept the LCA with stock bushings but the thrust arm with their bushing?

[FaRKle!]

Originally Posted by itsrichierich

Did you buy the whole arm setup from VAC or just the bushings? Based on pictures, seems like they kept the LCA with stock bushings but the thrust arm with their bushing?

VAC puts their own monoballs in both arms if you buy from them. It's a fully sealed design.

[ktw]

Yep, VAC puts their monoball in both pairs of front control arms, and they sell them as the monoball pre-installed in a new arm.

[ifobd]

Originally Posted by ktw

I ran the KMAC camber bushings for ~9k mi with OE top hats. I never needed an alignment check in that time, but didn't notice any drift in alignment based on how the car drove or tire wear.

I thought the increase in NVH was very small other than there was eventually some squeaking over speed bumps. Typical for poly bushings from what I've read, and it could have been either the KMAC LCA bushings or the Powerflex TS bushings.

Just switched to VAC control arm bushings and Millway street camber plates. There's certainly more audible transmission of road imperfections with this setup, but it's also a step up in steering responsiveness. (If anyone wants the used KMAC bushings PM me.)

Originally Posted by ktw

Just switched to VAC control arm bushings and Millway street camber plates. There's certainly more audible transmission of road imperfections with this setup, but it's also a step up in steering responsiveness. (If anyone wants the used KMAC bushings PM me.)

Do you have a link for the VAC control arms?

[ktw]

https://store.vacmotorsports.com/mob...Keyword=F3x%20

[itsrichierich]

If anyone is itnerested, I will have this kmac setup for sale pretty soon (It will come with either RWD or xdrive LCA). These were bought from FaRKle!

[kilogram]

I wonder if you could use these to correct the roll center a bit on a lowered car to help preserve the OE roll gradient. I think some of the weirder feeling lowered cars I've driven may be coming from the mismatched change in roll rates front to rear.

I don't have any data to back this up, but it's something I've been curious about. Most suspensions drop the roll center faster than they drop the CG, but the phenomenon tends to be more prevalent on strut cars. If the roll moment gets "more bigger" in the front than it does in the rear, the front is going to try to roll at a higher rate than the rear, which then introduces the chassis as an undamped torsion spring between the two. Again, these are all generalizations and not based on modeling of the F30's specific kinematics.

I've been really looking at the Swift Spec-R springs lately and it looks like they stiffen the front relative to the rear much more than, say, the Eibach Pro-kit and I wonder if they're trying to compensate for the increased roll moment in the front to keep the roll gradient consistent on the assumption that sway bars won't be changed. There isn't much data for them on the F30 (especially on an xDrive), but they seem to be really popular in the F8x camps where they also increase the front rate a lot relative to the rear rate.

Thoughts?

[brigade24]

Originally Posted by madriz

After many miles traveled, is there any noise, annoying vibration?
between alignment and alignment does it maintain the curvature?

I run the Kmacs with camber plates and have been for while now. there's no noise or vibration. The part is well made and if its installed right, there should be no issues. The bushing doesn't move once its tightened down so the alignment spec is maintained.

However, if you need camber I would start with camber plates first and if you need more, get the KMACs. Most decent plates will get you close to -3 degrees and i doubt you would need more than that. Plus plates are easier to adjust and do not affect the toe alignment as much as the KMACs.

[Eschmacher]

Originally Posted by FaRKle!

VAC puts their own monoballs in both arms if you buy from them. It's a fully sealed design.

Are the vac LCAs stock camber or do they add half a degree like the M arms?

[FaRKle!]

Originally Posted by kilogram

I wonder if you could use these to correct the roll center a bit on a lowered car to help preserve the OE roll gradient. I think some of the weirder feeling lowered cars I've driven may be coming from the mismatched change in roll rates front to rear.

Thoughts?

I posted some similar thoughts on these bushings in another thread. I believe it can be used to correct roll center, but there's so little data on where the Cg actually is, that it was a larger task than I felt like pursuing.

Originally Posted by Eschmacher

Are the vac LCAs stock camber or do they add half a degree like the M arms?

The VAC monoballs don't alter camber at all from the stock rubber bushings. Both have the bolt hole right in the middle of the assembly.

[Eschmacher]

Originally Posted by FaRKle!

The VAC monoballs don't alter camber at all from the stock rubber bushings. Both have the bolt hole right in the middle of the assembly.

I meant specifically the arms they sell the bushings preinstalled in.

I'm assuming they are not the M arms, but you can probably just install the VAC bushings into M arms, yes?

[blumagic]

Originally Posted by Eschmacher

I meant specifically the arms they sell the bushings preinstalled in.

I'm assuming they are not the M arms, but you can probably just install the VAC bushings into M arms, yes?

Why though? f80 arms already use spherical bushings

[CrushJelly]

Just wanting to reiterate how rubbish any eccentric camber PU bush is in the lower control arm joint.

Don't bother. I have personally seen too many cars fail.

KMAC are a local manufacturer. Kevin (owner) has arsed-around too many of my friends with ill-fitting parts. He no longer gets my support.