[bcl0328]

Originally Posted by diesel86

...said the man who leased his car.

Lease, sell, what's the difference...

[diesel86]

Originally Posted by bcl0328

Lease, sell, what's the difference...

My impression is that lessees tend to be more lax in the treatment of their vehicles since they are essentially a disposable item in 36mos. They're just renting their cars for a bit so why follow any break-in procedures or invest in any normal "Non-BMW" scheduled maintenance?

Owners tend to be more invested in their cars, because when the time comes to trade/sell the vehicle, how the vehicle looks or was maintained can have a huge impact on value and overall salability. The person who bought my previous car said that he was considering buying other similar vehicles to mine that were cheaper, but after checking my Carfax and seeing fastidious maintenance records I had kept, he was willing to pay a little more for mine knowing that it had been maintained.

[kevinp]

I am friends with one of the shop foreman here at one of the bmw's here in edmonton. (20 years of experience) With that being said, his words exactly " The engine oil that is used can definitely handle the 15k interval change. But the filter can't. When we service some vehicles the Oil filter is completely destroyed crumple or enough oil already leaking, obviously this is not told to the costumer. So if you really want to take care of your vehicle and make sure is top shape. Do it every 7500km, whats an extra $100 for your peace of mind later on and on a 60k vehicle. Also will help your resale value later on if you do decide to do it as it will be documented."
Im planning to do it every 5000km since i am anal about maintenance. If you don't want to to take it to the dealership than buy the stuff and do it yourself. Only reason to take it to dealership is that it is recorded into the system and youll have it as records for resale later and it just looks nice to have them from the dealership. Where as if you were to do it yourself, you'd have receipts. So is just preference and diff price range.

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by diesel86

My impression is that lessees tend to be more lax in the treatment of their vehicles since they are essentially a disposable item in 36mos. They're just renting their cars for a bit so why follow any break-in procedures or invest in any normal "Non-BMW" scheduled maintenance?

Owners tend to be more invested in their cars, because when the time comes to trade/sell the vehicle, how the vehicle looks or was maintained can have a huge impact on value and overall salability. The person who bought my previous car said that he was considering buying other similar vehicles to mine that were cheaper, but after checking my Carfax and seeing fastidious maintenance records I had kept, he was willing to pay a little more for mine knowing that it had been maintained.

That's just your impression, but hardly backed up by actual facts.

It's also my impression that some who cash buy or loan purchase feel superior to those who lease, and those "owners" tend to make grand generalizations. Actual fact to back up my impression? Your post.

Renting?

[bcl0328]

Originally Posted by kevinp

I am friends with one of the shop foreman here at one of the bmw's here in edmonton. (20 years of experience) With that being said, his words exactly " The engine oil that is used can definitely handle the 15k interval change. But the filter can't. When we service some vehicles the Oil filter is completely destroyed crumple or enough oil already leaking, obviously this is not told to the costumer. So if you really want to take care of your vehicle and make sure is top shape. Do it every 7500km, whats an extra $100 for your peace of mind later on and on a 60k vehicle. Also will help your resale value later on if you do decide to do it as it will be documented."
Im planning to do it every 5000km since i am anal about maintenance. If you don't want to to take it to the dealership than buy the stuff and do it yourself. Only reason to take it to dealership is that it is recorded into the system and youll have it as records for resale later and it just looks nice to have them from the dealership. Where as if you were to do it yourself, you'd have receipts. So is just preference and diff price range.

So if I don't change the oil will putting in a new filter help at all? I have 2 new ones laying around.

[kevinp]

So if I don't change the oil will putting in a new filter help at all? I have 2 new ones laying around.

It should make a diff. But then again i guess you'll be the one to judge by looking at it...you might need to you might not. All depends on your driving habits too right.

[diesel86]

Originally Posted by RPM90

That's just your impression, but hardly backed up by actual facts.

It's also my impression that some who cash buy or loan purchase feel superior to those who lease, and those "owners" tend to make grand generalizations. Actual fact to back up my impression? Your post.

Renting?

Hence why my very first statement stated it was my impression. Impression by definition is devoid of actual hard and fast data. Had I started my post with "It's a well known fact..." or " Based on peer-reviewed empirical evidence..." then you would have a point. My opinion is just that, an opinion; and I'm fully entitled to express it based on whatever info I may have come across and deemed worthy of retaining. Based on my experience perusing this board on subjects of break-in and oil change intervals, I made an observation that several (more than two by definition) lessees made statements around the fact that they didn't follow any BMW recommended break-in procedure because they were leasing their cars. Same can be said about the oil change intervals for the same group of people. If I'm required to "show my work" when posting on a topic, then I'll have to reassess my involvement in the board. I just simply don't have the time to invest that sort of effort...nor would I want to.

Any inferred moral superiority you gleaned from my post because I chose to finance my vehicle vs. lease is purely on your part. Besides, we all know, those on the board who paid cash for F30's hold the true moral high ground. It's my impression that the biggest case of moral superiority-ism comes from those of you with Xenons who look down on us Halogen guys. That's a fact I can back up because there is thread on the main page that exemplifies this.

Renting is a synonymous term for leasing.

[kevinp]

Besides, we all know, those on the board who paid cash for F30's hold the true moral high ground.

Thank you thank you ... at the end of the day
Who cares if its lease finance or paid off.
Its the owner who makes the difference in the vehicle and how it was taking care of.
I know alot of lease guys who take pride and care well for their vehicle.
Just like i know alot of guys who finance who dont really give a shit because at 80000km they just traded it for a newer one. And vice versa.
Its stupid to state I'm better than you because i financed it and you leased it lol dumbest thing I've heard. And this is coming from a guy who paid it cash.

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by diesel86

Hence why my very first statement stated it was my impression. Impression by definition is devoid of actual hard and fast data. Had I started my post with "It's a well known fact..." or " Based on peer-reviewed empirical evidence..." then you would have a point. My opinion is just that, an opinion; and I'm fully entitled to express it based on whatever info I may have come across and deemed worthy of retaining. Based on my experience perusing this board on subjects of break-in and oil change intervals, I made an observation that several (more than two by definition) lessees made statements around the fact that they didn't follow any BMW recommended break-in procedure because they were leasing their cars. Same can be said about the oil change intervals for the same group of people. If I'm required to "show my work" when posting on a topic, then I'll have to reassess my involvement in the board. I just simply don't have the time to invest that sort of effort...nor would I want to.

Any inferred moral superiority you gleaned from my post because I chose to finance my vehicle vs. lease is purely on your part. Besides, we all know, those on the board who paid cash for F30's hold the true moral high ground. It's my impression that the biggest case of moral superiority-ism comes from those of you with Xenons who look down on us Halogen guys. That's a fact I can back up because there is thread on the main page that exemplifies this.

Renting is a synonymous term for leasing.

Of course it's your opinion, and that's what I clarified.
I didn't ask you to back it up with data, I simply pointed out that you don't have that data.

I disagree that those who either loan purchase or pay in cash are more interested or more invested in their car ownership. In my 30yrs of driving and owning cars I've seen people who cash buy treat their cars like a true rental.
I've also experienced people who lease take care of their cars like it was their child.
And then there are many many loan purchased cars where the owner keeps the car until the loan is paid off and then they are bored with it and get another one.
I fell into that last group and then learned about leasing and it made great sense for how I wanted to get and own my cars.

Grand generalizations are never a good idea as they tend to miss the truth.
Do people who lease actually care less if their cars run well compared to those who don't lease?
I'm sure there are leasers who don't care, just as there are loan buyers who don't care either, I've seen it.

And consider that we all have a 4yr/50K mile warranty, so BMW takes care of any issues.
The idea that loan and cash buyers care more about their cars comes from the potential that they will owning their cars beyond those 4yrs/50K miles, and that extra maintenance will protect their cars from potential problems in the future. That's a legit concern. But then, how many BMW buyers actually keep their cars beyond the average 5yr loan?
Consider also that at least 50% of BMW sales are leases and BMW does a big business with those lease returns selling them with additional warranty of 2yrs/50K miles for a total of 6yrs/100k miles.
If leasers were that bad at maintenance, then BMW's resale value wouldn't be as great as it is.
Assumptions, impressions, and opinions are fine, but then there are factual things to be considered as well.

"Leasing" is not the same as "renting" when discussing automobile ownership.
Have you ever rented a car? It's nothing like leasing one.
You seem to be applying the words as they relate to housing or other similar types of transactions.
There are distinct differences between renting a car and leasing a car.
Leasing is much like a loan purchase, except with a lease there is a predetermined time of ownership.
Leasing like loan purchase requires someone else putting up the money to take the car home. And, like a loan purchase there is interest/money factor that will need to be paid on that borrowed money.

Renting a car is NOTHING like that.

Here's a basic explanation to help you better understand:
http://www.ehow.com/about_5494569_le...nting-car.html

[diesel86]

Sorry, I drifted off after the 14th paragraph.

[Musashi]

hello all,

Am new here, and have some input regarding oil.

KVR Performance owner Rick is considered an automotive expert. Besides building GT racing cars, he is equally, occasionally, contracted by National Research Council Canada for input and more. Say, a new brake technology.

He swears at any brake job (including my first two civics) and stops short of two cars: Audi and BMW. Regarding BMW he told me that they tested an E90 frame for oil and engine efficiency. At some point they emptied the oil and turned on the key. The other cars they tested usually lasted 7-10 min before red linining their temp. Told me that, without oil, the E90 V6 went on for 7-8 hours and they turned it off as they had to close shop.

He suspects that BMW's engine tolerances are incredible- if it can run without oil, and with BMW's proprietary oil it has to be remarkable. He equally believes that 20 to 24 000 kms is very realistic for 8 l of BMW's special synthetic. Case and point: my civics I averaged 12- 14000 between any oil changes, over 300 000 kms driven with two cars and each oil I tested (occasionally) revealed good viscosity, too few debris it was still good to go. True, I also used FRAM filters for synthetic oil.

bottom line? Call Rick he will tell you "Sir, you do EXACTLY as BMW says and not more often or less." BMW knows its stuff and tells us so. Say, Honda, Toyota, would say "We recommend you use.." BMW, on the other hand, tells us "We do not recommend" for a reason- after market parts, rims, brakes or ... oil!! the engineering is thus precise and also a secret to their success.

Rick believes that doing one's oil change on a new BMW is just silly. Or even an used one. He told me "Check how many BMWs I got to work on." = 0. Reason? It's a waste of his time or staff time. BMW owners I send them back at BMW. BMW is superior at base maintenance. His staff would spend more time and match out labor hours vs trained BMW technician (brake jobs excluded).

BMW's warranty is ensured, BUT not labor. It is conditional (see the warranty description) to BMW authorized service.

$ 125 for this car? It is a bargain. It's $ 50 for older 1 gallon for a Civic (synthetic plus synthetic filer); 2 gallon oil changes at BMW with their oil is truly a bargain. BMW's oil is proprietary technology and an integral part of that engine's performance. Same for Ferrari, Porsche etc.

thats' what Rick sais.

[bcl0328]

Originally Posted by Musashi

hello all,

Am new here, and have some input regarding oil.

KVR Performance owner Rick is considered an automotive expert. Besides building GT racing cars, he is equally, occasionally, contracted by National Research Council Canada for input and more. Say, a new brake technology.

He swears at any brake job (including my first two civics) and stops short of two cars: Audi and BMW. Regarding BMW he told me that they tested an E90 frame for oil and engine efficiency. At some point they emptied the oil and turned on the key. The other cars they tested usually lasted 7-10 min before red linining their temp. Told me that, without oil, the E90 V6 went on for 7-8 hours and they turned it off as they had to close shop.

He suspects that BMW's engine tolerances are incredible- if it can run without oil, and with BMW's proprietary oil it has to be remarkable. He equally believes that 20 to 24 000 kms is very realistic for 8 l of BMW's special synthetic. Case and point: my civics I averaged 12- 14000 between any oil changes, over 300 000 kms driven with two cars and each oil I tested (occasionally) revealed good viscosity, too few debris it was still good to go. True, I also used FRAM filters for synthetic oil.

bottom line? Call Rick he will tell you "Sir, you do EXACTLY as BMW says and not more often or less." BMW knows its stuff and tells us so. Say, Honda, Toyota, would say "We recommend you use.." BMW, on the other hand, tells us "We do not recommend" for a reason- after market parts, rims, brakes or ... oil!! the engineering is thus precise and also a secret to their success.

Rick believes that doing one's oil change on a new BMW is just silly. Or even an used one. He told me "Check how many BMWs I got to work on." = 0. Reason? It's a waste of his time or staff time. BMW owners I send them back at BMW. BMW is superior at base maintenance. His staff would spend more time and match out labor hours vs trained BMW technician (brake jobs excluded).

BMW's warranty is ensured, BUT not labor. It is conditional (see the warranty description) to BMW authorized service.

$ 125 for this car? It is a bargain. It's $ 50 for older 1 gallon for a Civic (synthetic plus synthetic filer); 2 gallon oil changes at BMW with their oil is truly a bargain. BMW's oil is proprietary technology and an integral part of that engine's performance. Same for Ferrari, Porsche etc.

thats' what Rick sais.

V6 eh? just messing. awesome if it's true.

[RyanCT]

Tired of skimming through the relentless arguing this website is full of. Has anyone dug up torque specs for the filter and the drain plug?

[n55x3]

Originally Posted by RadRyDawg

Tired of skimming through the relentless arguing this website is full of. Has anyone dug up torque specs for the filter and the drain plug?

A couple years back I looked for the tq specs but couldn't find them for the N55 motor. I've changed N55 oil so many times now though that I don't think the TQ really matters. The oil filter cap should have a green hash mark on it that spans the plastic cap to the metal filter housing. I just line mine up or maybe make it a tiny bit tighter. I use this hash as a point of ref when it goes in for it's normal oil changes. Concerning the drain plug, I just make mine tight, all by feel. Never lost a drop.

[RyanCT]

Thanks, I'm done jacking this thread now

[bcl0328]

Originally Posted by RadRyDawg

Tired of skimming through the relentless arguing this website is full of. Has anyone dug up torque specs for the filter and the drain plug?

doesn't it tell you on the plug and filter?

[123rc123]

Hello everyone. I have been doing really hard labour for the past couple years to buy my used 2012 BMW 328i. All the other kids in my town; their parents just buy it for them. Not me. My parents would never buy me something like that... I haven't had the best of life so I just wanted to buy myself something nice that I worked hard for, but I'll save you the little song on the violin. I looked around for the best prices and I settled on a 328i luxury line from Auto West BMW in Richmond, British Columbia. The car is great and I know quiet a bit about it. One thing really shocked me; they failed to address important issues, and basically walked me back out the door when I tried to bring the car into them today; which leaves me thinking I'll never buy a car from them again. They should take car of the customer. It is a very heartbreaking experience in this already terrible and corrupt world.

Issue #1: The leather seating. Upon delivery, I immediately noticed that the front passenger seat and the rear right passenger seat had strange creasing which I originally took as wear and tear, or perhaps sun damage ( if that was the case anyways they should have at least reduced the overall price of the car or just fixed it before selling it ) but after some research I realized it was a factory issue. The must have folded the leather while it was still moist while they were working with it, OR they didn't stretch the leather properly over the seating. From what I've heard on other car forums, they fixed it immediately with not cost to the customer; for example on a Chrysler 300.

Issue #2: The windshield wipers. Word for word I said this to myself after this problem occured and I quote this from another user, as I previously had an e90 in m family as well.

"Every car I have ever owned, I have been able to pull the windshield wiper mechanism (WWM) up off the windshield and stand it upright, while I do things like squeegee to clean the windshield, or scrape snow and ice off the windshield. It helps to be able to get the WWM up and out of the way, instead of holding it up with one hand and working with the other. My wife's E90, you can do that. Every car I've ever known, you can do that.

Not the F30, though. You can't lift up the WWM to stand upright because the hood is in the way:
http://i983.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps103aa091.gif (http://s983.photobucket.com/user/cha...aa091.gif.html)
Or, more exactly, you can stand up the WWM if you force it to rub against the hood, which would end up scratching it.
Does anyone have any idea why they designed it so you cannot easily stand up the WWM? This feels like a design flaw, but is there some advantage I'm not seeing? "

This stupid design created some ugly damage on my hood as well as this guy's^^ which I fear is in danger of corroding.

Sorry for the random misplaced post, I didn't know where to post this. Thank you all very much it means a lot to me, I am very heart broken

EDIT: Please don't tell me how to move the wipers up , I obviously know now.

[snowghost]

Originally Posted by 123rc123

Hello everyone. I have been doing really hard labour for the past couple years to buy my used 2012 BMW 328i. All the other kids in my town; their parents just buy it for them. Not me. My parents would never buy me something like that... I haven't had the best of life so I just wanted to buy myself something nice that I worked hard for, but I'll save you the little song on the violin. I looked around for the best prices and I settled on a 328i luxury line from Auto West BMW in Richmond, British Columbia. The car is great and I know quiet a bit about it. One thing really shocked me; they failed to address important issues, and basically walked me back out the door when I tried to bring the car into them today; which leaves me thinking I'll never buy a car from them again. They should take car of the customer. It is a very heartbreaking experience in this already terrible and corrupt world.

Issue #1: The leather seating. Upon delivery, I immediately noticed that the front passenger seat and the rear right passenger seat had strange creasing which I originally took as wear and tear, or perhaps sun damage ( if that was the case anyways they should have at least reduced the overall price of the car or just fixed it before selling it ) but after some research I realized it was a factory issue. The must have folded the leather while it was still moist while they were working with it, OR they didn't stretch the leather properly over the seating. From what I've heard on other car forums, they fixed it immediately with not cost to the customer; for example on a Chrysler 300.

Issue #2: The windshield wipers. Word for word I said this to myself after this problem occured and I quote this from another user, as I previously had an e90 in m family as well.

"Every car I have ever owned, I have been able to pull the windshield wiper mechanism (WWM) up off the windshield and stand it upright, while I do things like squeegee to clean the windshield, or scrape snow and ice off the windshield. It helps to be able to get the WWM up and out of the way, instead of holding it up with one hand and working with the other. My wife's E90, you can do that. Every car I've ever known, you can do that.

Not the F30, though. You can't lift up the WWM to stand upright because the hood is in the way:
http://i983.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps103aa091.gif (http://s983.photobucket.com/user/cha...aa091.gif.html)
Or, more exactly, you can stand up the WWM if you force it to rub against the hood, which would end up scratching it.
Does anyone have any idea why they designed it so you cannot easily stand up the WWM? This feels like a design flaw, but is there some advantage I'm not seeing? "

This stupid design created some ugly damage on my hood as well as this guy's^^ which I fear is in danger of corroding.

Sorry for the random misplaced post, I didn't know where to post this. Thank you all very much it means a lot to me, I am very heart broken

I assume you haven't read the manual. You need to turn off the ignition and pull up the wiper lever past the resistance point for 3 seconds (IIRC) and the wipers will stand vertical so you can mess with them. The design is for reduced wind drag .

[ScarecrowBoat]

Originally Posted by 123rc123

Hello everyone. I have been doing really hard labour for the past couple years to buy my used 2012 BMW 328i. All the other kids in my town; their parents just buy it for them. Not me. My parents would never buy me something like that... I haven't had the best of life so I just wanted to buy myself something nice that I worked hard for, but I'll save you the little song on the violin. I looked around for the best prices and I settled on a 328i luxury line from Auto West BMW in Richmond, British Columbia. The car is great and I know quiet a bit about it. One thing really shocked me; they failed to address important issues, and basically walked me back out the door when I tried to bring the car into them today; which leaves me thinking I'll never buy a car from them again. They should take car of the customer. It is a very heartbreaking experience in this already terrible and corrupt world.

Issue #1: The leather seating. Upon delivery, I immediately noticed that the front passenger seat and the rear right passenger seat had strange creasing which I originally took as wear and tear, or perhaps sun damage ( if that was the case anyways they should have at least reduced the overall price of the car or just fixed it before selling it ) but after some research I realized it was a factory issue. The must have folded the leather while it was still moist while they were working with it, OR they didn't stretch the leather properly over the seating. From what I've heard on other car forums, they fixed it immediately with not cost to the customer; for example on a Chrysler 300.

Issue #2: The windshield wipers. Word for word I said this to myself after this problem occured and I quote this from another user, as I previously had an e90 in m family as well.

"Every car I have ever owned, I have been able to pull the windshield wiper mechanism (WWM) up off the windshield and stand it upright, while I do things like squeegee to clean the windshield, or scrape snow and ice off the windshield. It helps to be able to get the WWM up and out of the way, instead of holding it up with one hand and working with the other. My wife's E90, you can do that. Every car I've ever known, you can do that.

Not the F30, though. You can't lift up the WWM to stand upright because the hood is in the way:
http://i983.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps103aa091.gif (http://s983.photobucket.com/user/cha...aa091.gif.html)
Or, more exactly, you can stand up the WWM if you force it to rub against the hood, which would end up scratching it.
Does anyone have any idea why they designed it so you cannot easily stand up the WWM? This feels like a design flaw, but is there some advantage I'm not seeing? "

This stupid design created some ugly damage on my hood as well as this guy's^^ which I fear is in danger of corroding.

Sorry for the random misplaced post, I didn't know where to post this. Thank you all very much it means a lot to me, I am very heart broken

EDIT: Please don't tell me how to move the wipers up , I obviously know now.

Hey just so you know to move the wipers up, turn off the ignition and hold the wiper lever up for 3 seconds. Then you can lift them up and change the wipers on a new car for some reason.

[gonein10]

The only thing i don't see in this post about "oil change" is probably the most important part of "how to"
On engines that have their oil filter top mounted, cavitation in the oil pump is possible if not properly refilled.
If the required capacity is 5-6 liters (quarts) 1/2 of that oil needs to be poured down the filter gally and the rest through the oil filler cap on the head.

Doing it yourself is great as long as you're doing it right.!