[Hansie]

Think a decent mic is more important than an app.

[adc]

Originally Posted by Hansie

Think a decent mic is more important than an app.

I can get one if there is any recommendation. My Samsung has the classic mic/headphone jack so it should not be a hard burden.

Any idea which mic to get?

[Encanto]

Originally Posted by btx3M40

Frequencies below 200 hz or so are non-directional — the two woofers can be connected in parallel then connected to the mono output of the amp

Your OEM system plays the woofers in stereo.

[OcmRz3r]

Originally Posted by Billfitz

Higher BL/lower Qes allows a reduction in enclosure size, but at the cost of low frequency sensitivity.

Yes, you are literally repeating exactly what I wrote when I corrected your incorrect first statement where you claimed that higher BL needed a larger enclosure. Not sure what your point was there, since we'd already established that you were wrong.

Originally Posted by Billfitz

Higher BL doesn't increase Qes, it lowers it.

You misread - I said it increased damping. Higher electrical damping corresponds to a lower Qes number.

[pierreye]

Originally Posted by adc

I can get one if there is any recommendation. My Samsung has the classic mic/headphone jack so it should not be a hard burden.

Any idea which mic to get?

I would recommend individual calibrated Umik-1 USB microphone from Cross Spectrum. It is calibrated down to 10hz. I have compare both correction file from MiniDSP and Cross Spectrum and it's not even close especially for below 100hz. Another advantage you get both 0 degree and 90 degree calibration file.

https://cross-spectrum.com/measureme...ated_umik.html

[Billfitz]

Originally Posted by OcmRz3r

Yes, you are literally repeating exactly what I wrote when I corrected your incorrect first statement where you claimed that higher BL needed a larger enclosure.

I never said higher BL needed a larger enclosure.

You misread - I said it increased damping. Higher electrical damping corresponds to a lower Qes number.

Damping has nothing to do with this discussion.
If you want to learn something ask. If you want to argue I'm not going to waste my time.

[OcmRz3r]

Originally Posted by Billfitz

I never said higher BL needed a larger enclosure.

You were quoted above. I guess there must be two Billfitz's, my apologies.

If you want to learn something ask.

Wow, that's a generous offer, I'll keep that in mind. I work in engineering management for a large audio products manufacturer, and have been in the industry for nearly 30 years. The next time I need someone on my team who is confidently incorrect and highly sensitive to being corrected, I'll have HR reach out.

[Billfitz]

Good for you, newbie. I may have designed speakers for the company you work for. I've done so for better than 20 manufacturers since 1972.

[OcmRz3r]

Originally Posted by Billfitz

Good for you, newbie. I may have designed speakers for the company you work for. I've done so for better than 20 manufacturers since 1972.

That's funny. Thanks for the laugh.

[adc]

Originally Posted by pierreye

I would recommend individual calibrated Umik-1 USB microphone from Cross Spectrum. It is calibrated down to 10hz. I have compare both correction file from MiniDSP and Cross Spectrum and it's not even close especially for below 100hz. Another advantage you get both 0 degree and 90 degree calibration file.

https://cross-spectrum.com/measureme...ated_umik.html

pierrye, they are sold out until later April/May. I will order one as soon as they have it back in stock.

Meanwhile, I may try to do a comparative test with whatever I have in hand as soon as the weather warms up a bit.

[Billfitz]

That mic is pretty much the same as this:
https://www.parts-express.com/Dayton...ophone-390-808

It's also back-ordered, probably a C-19 thing.

[btx3M40]

Based on advise from the thread, I upgraded the under seat woofers with 4 ohm Eathquakes and a little Kicker KEY 500 amp pushing 300 watts @ 2 ohm to them. Really woke the system up - drums and bass are much tighter and sound awesome and way less boomy. It can even dig fairly low when needed – for example, the opening notes of Gary Clark Jr's "This Land". Does it go as low as my 15" Velodyne sub in my HT? No but that's really not what I'm looking for inside a car – done too much ear damage already. Thanks to all!

[VertigoAtHome]

First, this is a great thread, appreciate all the time people have put into it, learned quite a bit but I'm still very much an audio novice that can ask a stupid question at any moment. That said, I'm upgrading the sound in my 2021 X5 optioned with the base HiFi (got caught up in the recent HK delete). My initial plan was to install the Audiotec Match UP 7DSP amp myself and see how things sound but for a number of reasons I'm now thinking about installing the amp and front door speakers with Focals and possibly the under-seat woofers. Perhaps a dedicated subwoofer down the road. FWIW, I'm leaving the rear doors and center OEM speakers in place. Given my new plan is a bit more involved I've talking with a local installer who is both an Audiotec dealer and a Focal dealer so they are knowledgeable in the equipment I want. They are suggesting I use Gladen under-seat subs over leaving the OEM subs in part because they believe the OEM subs are 8 ohms and the amp is rated at 2 ohms. Are they 8 ohms? I've seen pictures of these subs that say 2 ohms on the label but I read somewhere in this thread that the label may be misleading/incorrect. Even if they are closer to 4 ohms, if I'm not going to get much if anything from upgrading the under-seat subs, I can use that money for the dedicated sub now. If I do keep the OEM woofers could they be damaged by the increased power of the Match amp? Perhaps I'm thinking too hard and should just go with the Gladens. Thoughts?

[eleven11]

Originally Posted by VertigoAtHome

First, this is a great thread, appreciate all the time people have put into it, learned quite a bit but I'm still very much an audio novice that can ask a stupid question at any moment. That said, I'm upgrading the sound in my 2021 X5 optioned with the base HiFi (got caught up in the recent HK delete). My initial plan was to install the Audiotec Match UP 7DSP amp myself...

I'd begin with your first intuition (switch the amp only). See how that sounds, and go from there. Your OEM under seat speakers should be fine (someone else can verify here, but I ran that configuration for a short time before swapping to Audisons).

[Billfitz]

Originally Posted by VertigoAtHome

They are suggesting I use Gladen under-seat subs over leaving the OEM

There are two valid reasons to suggest a different driver. One is with measured test results comparing it to OEM, the other is using the full set of Thiele-Small specs with speaker modeling software to compare them. I can't find either measured test results or Thiele-Small specs for the Gladen woofer. You wouldn't buy a $300 tune without seeing a Dyno result, you shouldn't buy a speaker without seeing either a measured or modeled result.

If I do keep the OEM woofers could they be damaged by the increased power of the Match amp?

Maybe, if you play them too loud. But as long as you have more power available get the Earthquakes, which have been proven to actually go lower and louder than stock with sufficient power.

[VertigoAtHome]

Originally Posted by Billfitz

There are two valid reasons to suggest a different driver. One is with measured test results comparing it to OEM, the other is using the full set of Thiele-Small specs with speaker modeling software to compare them. I can't find either measured test results or Thiele-Small specs for the Gladen woofer. You wouldn't buy a $300 tune without seeing a Dyno result, you shouldn't buy a speaker without seeing either a measured or modeled result.

Maybe, if you play them too loud. But as long as you have more power available get the Earthquakes, which have been proven to actually go lower and louder than stock with sufficient power.

Makes sense, the Earthquakes are also around 1/2 the price of the Gladens.

So that leaves the last decision on whether to install a dedicated subwoofer that I could mount in the wheel well (ditch the small spare). I had a powered Alpine sub (I believe it was either 8 or 10 inches) in the boot of my 911 that was unbelievable good, transformed the sound system. FWIW I listen to music by Tom Petty, Mark Knopfler, Neil Young, Joe Bonamassa, etc. I prefer a very tight base rather than a booming base you might want for rap music. Thinking about a JL Audio 12 in enclosed sub with one of their mono block amps. Any guidance here?

[Billfitz]

I'm running an almost stock Hi-Fi system. The only changes I made was to add tweeters to the rear doors and to add real crossovers to the mids/tweeters. I listen to Classic Rock at sensible levels and this arrangement suits me just fine. It also helps that I know there's no such thing as magic speakers, no matter what the advertising may say. The Focals you mentioned, for instance, are no better than stock. If I was dissatisfied with the bass I'm getting I'd switch to Earthquakes and power them with another amp, but Classic Rock doesn't go that low, so I'm good there. I'd add a stand alone DSP to improve the EQ, but they don't exist. The DSP in the Match UP is nice, but I don't need the extra power, so it's not worth it to me.

Also, I'm not sure of what you have. You said it's the base Hi-Fi, but Base and Hi-Fi are two different systems. I can't tell where you're located either. North Georgia could be just south of South Carolina, and it could be just south of Russia.

[VertigoAtHome]

Originally Posted by Billfitz

I'm running an almost stock Hi-Fi system. The only changes I made was to add tweeters to the rear doors and to add real crossovers to the mids/tweeters. I listen to Classic Rock at sensible levels and this arrangement suits me just fine. It also helps that I know there's no such thing as magic speakers, no matter what the advertising may say. The Focals you mentioned, for instance, are no better than stock. If I was dissatisfied with the bass I'm getting I'd switch to Earthquakes and power them with another amp, but Classic Rock doesn't go that low, so I'm good there. I'd add a stand alone DSP to improve the EQ, but they don't exist. The DSP in the Match UP is nice, but I don't need the extra power, so it's not worth it to me.

Also, I'm not sure of what you have. You said it's the base Hi-Fi, but Base and Hi-Fi are two different systems. I can't tell where you're located either. North Georgia could be just south of South Carolina, and it could be just south of Russia.

My car is the Hi-Fi (676) option, it was included as a standard feature of the MY2021 G05. For G05's delivered in the US (I'm in N GA USA) you had 3 options: HiFi, HK, or B&W. I couldn't get the HK due to the chip shortage that started in February, and B&W wasn't offered for my spec. The HiFi sounds system is ok but seems like a lot of sound is lost in the mid range as compared to other cars I've had. Turning it up at all loud becomes annoying after a few minutes so I want to solve that. One of my concerns with this project is ending up with something that actually sounds worse. I don't think the Match UP amp will make things worse and I'm hoping it will allow me to play the system louder with less distortion. Interesting comment you made regarding Focals vs my current door speakers, I would have expected the Focals to be significantly better than what's in the car now. I don't know what type of crossover is in the front door OEM speakers but what do you mean by "real" crossovers and how does that compare to the OEM HiFi speakers? Can you recommend replacements that are better and are PnP for the G05?

Lastly, given what you've said I may be better off doing this in stages as I first thought and as eleven11 suggested. I appreciate your your input!

[Billfitz]

The Base system, not sold in the US, has a head unit only, with no external amp. In Europe and most other locales the Hi-Fi is an optional upgrade.

The OEM has no true crossover. A crossover divides the signal, sending the midrange frequencies to the midrange driver, and the high frequencies to the tweeter. BMW, and most OEM for that matter, sends the full range of frequencies to the midrange, while filtering, barely, the midrange frequencies from the tweeters. This explains in greater detail:
http://www.bcae1.com/xoorder.htm

The main reason for the distortion of the tweeters at high volume is the inadequate filtering of the tweeter signal. The OEM tweeter filters are 1st order, the tweeter filters I designed, built and installed are 3rd order, along with 2nd order low pass filters for the midranges.

I've measured the response and Thiele-Small specs of my OEM drivers. I haven't come across any replacement mids or tweeters that are any better. Part of that is because data isn't available for most replacements, part of that is because the OEM mids and tweeters are high quality. It would be a different story if they were of the $10 variety, but they aren't.

A perceived lack of mids often translates to too much lows and highs. Turn those down and it may help. Without question the EQ of the Hi-Fi option is its weakest point, but without replacing the amp there's nothing you can do about it.

[VertigoAtHome]

Originally Posted by Billfitz

The main reason for the distortion of the tweeters at high volume is the inadequate filtering of the tweeter signal. The OEM tweeter filters are 1st order...

Makes sense, this describes the problem.

Originally Posted by Billfitz

I've measured the response and Thiele-Small specs of my OEM drivers. I haven't come across any replacement mids or tweeters that are any better. Part of that is because data isn't available for most replacements, part of that is because the OEM mids and tweeters are high quality. It would be a different story if they were of the $10 variety, but they aren't.

Got it... so while the Focal IS BMW 100L may not be a better speaker, I have to believe they are on par with the OEM speakers and they do have real crossovers (right?), and are PnP which is important given my skills or lack thereof (at least as far as sound systems; I'm a retired software architect; spent most of my career at Boston based startups). So these look to be my best bet at this point for a OEM replacement speakers in the front doors if I feel it's necessary once I install the amp.

Originally Posted by Billfitz

A perceived lack of mids often translates to too much lows and highs. Turn those down and it may help. Without question the EQ of the Hi-Fi option is its weakest point, but without replacing the amp there's nothing you can do about it.

Yep exactly, hoping the Match UP 7DSP will be an improvement. Thanks again for your help, I'll post back once I make more progress on modifying my sound system.

[Billfitz]

The Focal does appear to have a real crossover, but I can't say how good it is. On the midrange data sheet it indicates a 6dB/octave crossover at 4kHz. The drivers do have specs and response data, and they're virtually identical to the OEM.

Here's the thing. For a given enclosure size and type there's a fairly narrow range of specs that give the best possible result. These Focals fall within that range, but so do the OEM.

[cwleth]

Awesome thread - but one easily gets to the point of not being able to see the wood for trees in this read information overload - would be nice with a kind of wrap-up of the recommendations given.

I have a base (European) system which I'm looking to upgrade, and so far had settled myself on a complete Mach-package upgrade:

• AMP: Match UP 7DSP (with MEC module for 6x analog in and a RAM harness to go from the ASD module)
• Front: Match UP C42BMW-FRT.2 2-way component system
• Rear: Match UP X4BMW-FRT.2 Full tone
• Subs: Match UP W8BMW-S 2-ohm

But after reading the thread i started doubting whether I would be better of with a pair of the Earthquake SWS-8Xi...?

Billfitz Am I fooling myself, believing that there are some synergies in choosing components from the same manufacturer for the complete system (some kind of expected balance) or should I be free to pick & match as i please?

And if so - I assume your answer would be the SWS-8Xi over the Match UP W8BMW-S? (I listen mostly to electronic/dance music)