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BMW 3-Series and 4-Series Forum (F30 / F32) | F30POST > Technical Forums > Mechanical Maintenance and TSBs: Break-in / Oil & Fluids / Servicing / TSBs and Service Bulletin > Cleaning your intake valve's carbon buildup
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      07-02-2014, 10:49 AM   #1
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Cleaning your intake valve's carbon buildup

For the N54, but basically the same for ours

Crazy amount of buildup at ~35k miles

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      07-05-2014, 12:50 PM   #2
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Very informative. I had heard of similar issues with audi direct injection cars. Does anyone know if the diesel bmw's have the same issues since they are direct injection too?
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      07-05-2014, 02:31 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drjsuh View Post
Very informative. I had heard of similar issues with audi direct injection cars. Does anyone know if the diesel bmw's have the same issues since they are direct injection too?
They have the same issues (check the E90POST\M47 M57 diesel forum); however the root cause is considerably different - on diesels the cause is EGR. The solution is also different due to the different head and intake design

It's hard to say how many diesel owners are having problems, as BMW doesn't say and these forums are not representative at all. Also, many people aren't having problems (like me) apparently due to driving regimes. The X5d's don't seem to be having as many problems, possibly due to higher engine loads (heavier, bigger car) and the presence of the low-pressure EGR in addition to high pressure.

Last edited by floydarogers; 07-05-2014 at 02:36 PM.
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      07-08-2014, 03:25 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drjsuh View Post
Very informative. I had heard of similar issues with audi direct injection cars. Does anyone know if the diesel bmw's have the same issues since they are direct injection too?
All pure DI engines have this issue - oil vapors from the crank case ventilation system are piped into the motor's intake and ingested by the motor. On a non-DI car, fuel is injected above the intake valves, constantly cleaning them. On a DI car, fuel is injected directly into the cylinder, behind the intake valves so they're not cleaned.

Toyota uses a hybrid DI/port injection system where fuel is delivered by both mechanisms - the fuel injected into the intake port cleans the valves and prevents this problem. Interesting enough - that system was not designed to fix this issue but rather to address the fuel delivery problems at high RPM operation they had with older injectors. The clean valves were a welcome unintended side-effect.
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      08-05-2014, 10:31 PM   #5
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I hope BMW goes the dual fuel-into-cylinder delivery route (DI and PI) in the B58 series.
Wishful thinking
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      08-07-2014, 11:14 AM   #6
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17 minute DIY video which probably translates to at the bare minimum 4-5 hours for a weekend mechanic.
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      08-07-2014, 11:23 AM   #7
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Yeah
Can you imagine how bad it would be to not exactly get those valves tightly closed off, and getting a few walnut shell fragments stuck in a cylinder or cylinders.
This job is NOT for the faint of heart.
The whole carbon buildup thing is cause for pause in considering purchase of any DI car
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      08-13-2014, 05:30 PM   #8
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All you need is a bottle of:

CHEVRON COMPLETE FUEL SYSTEM CLEANER
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      08-14-2014, 09:15 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tntsE90 View Post
All you need is a bottle of:

CHEVRON COMPLETE FUEL SYSTEM CLEANER
Not sure.

When I used to be a mechanic, we had a lot, and I mean a lot of presentation of supposed miracle in a can.

After customers bought and used the product, the car always came back the same way a car without this put in the system ended up.

Not so much a believer of "mechanic in a can", sorry.
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      08-14-2014, 10:41 AM   #10
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Neither CHEVRON COMPLETE FUEL SYSTEM CLEANER, Techron or BMW's Cleaner (which in Techron) have any impact on the carbon issue since they are added to the fuel system which is then injection directly into the DI chambers, not touching or "washing" the valves and seats. I had a 08 335i and now a 13 335i and use Techron regularly to keep the injectors clean, I had the 08 cleaned at 40K miles and was surprised at the amount of carbon was built up in the valve area. Really mess.
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      08-14-2014, 03:59 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orion4 View Post
Neither CHEVRON COMPLETE FUEL SYSTEM CLEANER, Techron or BMW's Cleaner (which in Techron) have any impact on the carbon issue since they are added to the fuel system which is then injection directly into the DI chambers, not touching or "washing" the valves and seats. I had a 08 335i and now a 13 335i and use Techron regularly to keep the injectors clean, I had the 08 cleaned at 40K miles and was surprised at the amount of carbon was built up in the valve area. Really mess.
This - fuel system cleaner in a DI engine does absolutely nothing to clean the intake valve train (does help the injectors stay healthy though). Detergents can't clean something they never come into contact with.
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      08-14-2014, 04:04 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 330indy View Post
Yeah
Can you imagine how bad it would be to not exactly get those valves tightly closed off, and getting a few walnut shell fragments stuck in a cylinder or cylinders.
This job is NOT for the faint of heart.
The whole carbon buildup thing is cause for pause in considering purchase of any DI car
This part isn't scary - intake valves are closed for at least 75% of a 4 stoke motors rotation. You would have to be daft to not get the valves completely closed.

You might end up with some media residue around the valve seats that the vacuum doesn't take care of, but that's why you use walnut and not soda or glass or aluminum oxide or silicon carbide etc. If the engine eats a little walnut dust it's not going to hurt it.
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      08-28-2014, 02:17 PM   #13
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http://www.techron.com/techron-concentrate-plus/

http://www.techron.com/images/img_in...rf_tab_sml.jpg
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      08-28-2014, 05:02 PM   #14
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the pictures of the Intake Valve that show the buildup on the valve stem and back of the valve face being cleaned by the concentrate does not apply to our DI engines. The cleaner never touches these areas. The valve face will be cleaned which is better than nothing
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      10-05-2014, 09:03 AM   #15
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What interval are people seeing with the N55? I understand this engine has an improved CCV design over the N54 which were problematic.
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      10-05-2014, 10:22 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Socom View Post
What interval are people seeing with the N55? I understand this engine has an improved CCV design over the N54 which were problematic.
Th N55 does have a different and, BMW says, improved ccv system that should do a better job of separating or removing oily vapors before the air is sent on to the intake tract.

There are a couple other things that could mitigate intake deposits -

I think the current f30 n55 does a better job of controlling oil temps and keeping oil temps down, particularly when you start to "exercise" the engine.

BMW will be switching to Shell as its lubricant partner starting in 2015. One reason for the switch may be (and I'm guessing) is that Shell is way, way ahead of other oil companies in refining "gas-to-liquid" lubricants. These GTL lubes made from natural gas are very clean and have low deposition rates, and more to the point, have very low volatility (less oily vapors) compared to more conventional synthetics.

Finally, there was a thread on the BITOG oil forum about intake deposits and Doug Hillary (a very experienced lubricants engineer who has worked for Castrol and Exxon/Mobil) made this observation: "As for OCIs - I recommend following the Warranty requirements to the letter! When in Germany this year I was given some data from very reliable sources that suggests that shortening the OCIs and/or using non-Approved lubricants may affect intake deposits in a negative way." What he is saying is that the most deposition from an oil occurs when it is new or fresh. So, more frequent oil changes just feed or replenish deposits and accelerate intake deposits. Just one more reason to avoid unnecessary frequent oil changes. Stick to BMW's recommended oil change interval. Here's the thread http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...72#Post2082572
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Last edited by m6pwr; 10-05-2014 at 06:18 PM.
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      10-05-2014, 08:05 PM   #17
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This is why I lease. All DI engines have this issue. The only way to solve it, is to use a secondary fuel injector in the intake to run a maintenance cycle. But like fuel injection 30 some years ago, it will have it's issue and get resolved.

Side not, to help with carbon build up. You need to ream your car once in a while to get the heat up and push the engine at high revs. BMW need to be driven hard, everyone with issue is usually pussy footed around town.
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      10-07-2014, 02:01 PM   #18
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Wow, very interesting find!

Quote:
Originally Posted by m6pwr View Post
Th N55 does have a different and, BMW says, improved ccv system that should do a better job of separating or removing oily vapors before the air is sent on to the intake tract.

There are a couple other things that could mitigate intake deposits -

I think the current f30 n55 does a better job of controlling oil temps and keeping oil temps down, particularly when you start to "exercise" the engine.

BMW will be switching to Shell as its lubricant partner starting in 2015. One reason for the switch may be (and I'm guessing) is that Shell is way, way ahead of other oil companies in refining "gas-to-liquid" lubricants. These GTL lubes made from natural gas are very clean and have low deposition rates, and more to the point, have very low volatility (less oily vapors) compared to more conventional synthetics.

Finally, there was a thread on the BITOG oil forum about intake deposits and Doug Hillary (a very experienced lubricants engineer who has worked for Castrol and Exxon/Mobil) made this observation: "As for OCIs - I recommend following the Warranty requirements to the letter! When in Germany this year I was given some data from very reliable sources that suggests that shortening the OCIs and/or using non-Approved lubricants may affect intake deposits in a negative way." What he is saying is that the most deposition from an oil occurs when it is new or fresh. So, more frequent oil changes just feed or replenish deposits and accelerate intake deposits. Just one more reason to avoid unnecessary frequent oil changes. Stick to BMW's recommended oil change interval. Here's the thread http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...72#Post2082572
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      12-19-2014, 02:00 AM   #19
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hello

I have a BMW F30 330d 2012 model 258ch totaling 116000kms


As with all my bmw I removed the intake manifold and agr valve to see if it was dirty and surprise

this is the first time I see such a fouling on 1.5cms intake manifold calamine

So dismantling and cleaning karcher


Piece that connects the intake manifold and the arrival of the exhaust gas
before


after


Entered the intake manifold




Intake manifold and disassemble plastic flap







To remedy to this problem I decided to buy oil recuperateur

Setting up the oil separator

Finally I have more oil in the air supply system

here is the kit bought on Ebay



Exhibit 19 has a flush cut on part 2




Attaching the quick coupling 12 (not supplied in the kit) to the cylinder head cover part



Attaching the quick coupling 12 on the part of air hose



Attaching the front of the radiator tank and installation quick coupling 12 in place of the original ones



Air inlet section view



View part cylinder head cover



View of the reservoir and oil level



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      12-19-2014, 12:20 PM   #20
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David51,

Do you plan on having the carbon cleaned off the intake and the intake valves?
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      12-19-2014, 01:19 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F32Fleet View Post
David51,

Do you plan on having the carbon cleaned off the intake and the intake valves?


I already cleaned karcher the intake manifold which is now like new

and I removed a section on the valve conduits scraping and sucking

but as I do not have the camera as the video there is some dirt to

valves
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      01-04-2015, 11:07 AM   #22
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For those in the US, do you think my dealership would do this task if I ask them before my car turns to 50k
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