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      01-21-2016, 01:07 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by MomoM3 View Post
Do you think it'd be worth it to add springs & sways? Understood there might be aftermarket options but I'd be more interested in staying with OEM.

What other benefits would I expect replacing the springs and sways? Lower ride height, improved spring rate, improved handling?

--


My 340i is my 1st xDrive non-SUV car. I also have an X5 which is xDrive of course but I'm not comparing my 340i's xDrive to the X5.

After owning my 340i for a week, I can't really complain about its handling as an AWD vs RWD at all. I've owned several M3s - (1) e46, (2) e92 and although either of those cars were the epitome of what RWD should be, I cannot make a huge distinction between the handling of those vs. the 340i xDrive. I am sure the 340i RWD would be A LOT closer to the driving experience of my previous M3s but it's certainly not a night and day difference with xDrive. The only detractors I've found was the car being too planted when making a turn from a stop and the ride height. Sure, steering seems a tad bit wider, but not wide like my X5.

I live in a semi-rural area with varying elevation and twisty roads everywhere and get a ton of snow. Believe me, I wanted RWD but I also wanted a car I could just throw skis in and head to the mountain on un-plowed roads. If I wanted a RWD it wouldn't be a 340, it'd definitely be an M3 with out-of-the-box rear-differential.

The net-net is I was worried the xDrive would drive like my X5 and it really doesn't at all. It is certainly a compromise and just the slightest bit more of peace of mind but I'm actually quite happy with its handling and I've had my snow set-up on since day 2.

You should absolutely NOT get an xDrive if you live outside of where you consistently get snowfall OR if you plan on not driving in snow. I had RWD living in Manhattan and that was fine because when it would snow, I would just hop on the subway to go anywhere and leave my car in the garage. Roads in the city were generally plowed in a half day so you were fine as long as you didn't park on the street. I wanted xDrive because when it snows, I bolt for the mountains. Also, if you decide to buy an xDrive because of the "snow" get actual snow tires! All-season tires and AWD in the snow is absolutely pointless. My X5 with all-seasons has gotten stuck skating on ice plenty of times. Please don't get an xDrive for "rain" like I see some people do.
I'm really not sure if the OEM rwd M Sport parts would plug directly onto an xDrive model. I think you can get away with the springs, but the front might sit a little lower than intended due to weight. I do not believe the sways will fit. If they could just be a straight swap, I would imagine they would have come like that from the factory. If I'm wrong, I'm sure somebody will correct me

I know you don't want to go aftermarket, but I believe Dinan, ACS, or Alpina might be your best bet. Dinan has xDrive specific suspension parts, and most dealers carry their stuff anyways. I personally have their springs on my xDrive and I am very happy with them.

With the spring swap, I noticed a very mild drop (.75-1 inch) and less roll in the corners. I would say that 90% of the comfort was retained which was pretty important to me since this is my daily. My old car was lowered by about 2 inches and boy, is this a good change lol. The springs gave me everything that I wanted/expected, but I know tastes/preferences are different so they may or may not serve your needs.
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      01-21-2016, 11:34 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crono06 View Post
I'm really not sure if the OEM rwd M Sport parts would plug directly onto an xDrive model. I think you can get away with the springs, but the front might sit a little lower than intended due to weight. I do not believe the sways will fit. If they could just be a straight swap, I would imagine they would have come like that from the factory. If I'm wrong, I'm sure somebody will correct me

I know you don't want to go aftermarket, but I believe Dinan, ACS, or Alpina might be your best bet. Dinan has xDrive specific suspension parts, and most dealers carry their stuff anyways. I personally have their springs on my xDrive and I am very happy with them.

With the spring swap, I noticed a very mild drop (.75-1 inch) and less roll in the corners. I would say that 90% of the comfort was retained which was pretty important to me since this is my daily. My old car was lowered by about 2 inches and boy, is this a good change lol. The springs gave me everything that I wanted/expected, but I know tastes/preferences are different so they may or may not serve your needs.
Hey thanks for the write up on Dinan. I will certainly look into it as it sounds like my best bet for what I want.
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      01-24-2016, 11:46 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by S4NoMore View Post
I'm one to buy a BMW for the dynamics. XDrive is a weight penalty and there are probably differences in the basics of spring rate, damper valving and anti-roll bars plus ride height.

However, I believe the main issue is suspension geometry at the front. In order to drive the front wheels there needs to be a CV axle going into them, which creates a packaging issue and as things are moved around to make room, certain key aspects of the geometry are affected. This makes the car feel different compared with the RWD counterpart.

My RWD does well with winter tires, I deal with snow and can't take snow days. (Pirelli sottozero 3, rated best this year on tirerack)
I reside in Michigan and have owned a F30 328i xDrive but switched to a F30 335i RWD.

The xDrive is fabulous in the snow and ice, in fact even better than some AWD trucks I have owned. During these winter mornings after an evening dusting of 1-2" of snow, xDrive never failed to impress. However, the trade-off was the detachment from the road, the standard suspension and the heavy components of AWD attached to the front wheels. It numbed the feel for the other 335 days a year with out slippery conditions.

After 3 years and 60K trouble free miles, I moved over to a F30 RWD 335i M-Sport and purchased a set of winter rims and Pirelli Sottozero winter tires. In low traction conditions, the RWD vehicle always goes into traction control, however, when I run in "EcoPro" mode on those challenging days, the traction is much easier to control. I have given up little in the agility and maneuverability through snow BUT gained much in the overall feel and handling department. The RWD with the 704 suspension is much more "planted" to the road and the steering is not as "numb and detached" as the AWD. Even my Wife has commented that although the two cars appearance in and out are nearly the same, it is amazing how different they feel, the RWD to the good.

I would go with the RWD unless I lived outside the 'burbs and had 120+ inches of annual snowfall that was last to be plowed (if ever), otherwise, use the $4K saved ($2K for DHP and $2K for xDrive) towards a winter rim & tire set. If I was to get xDrive again, the DHP would be a must!

The Dinan Spring set will lower the xDrive car 1" (the AWD is 3/4" higher than the RWD) and increase stiffness 30% (MSRP $299) and one should add the Supplemental Ride Handling Kit ($159 MSRP). This would certainly have a huge impact. I do not know if the 704 springs would work on the AWD.
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      01-24-2016, 04:44 PM   #48
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^ I agree with “kpgray”, and here’s my additional 2 cents on the subject.

I've only owned RWD 3-Series BMWs with Sport Packages (ZSP or ZMM) and manual gearboxes, which I drive during northeast winters on dedicated snow tires (I also own a manual E46 M3 which has never been driven in the winter). I have driven a friend's xi and numerous xi loaners, which seem to be the only cars that BMW dealerships keep on their lots in the northeast. Every time I’ve driven an xi, I’ve been underwhelmed by the chassis dynamics and handling compared to RWD BMWs with Sport Package. It’s probably got a lot to do with the non-sport-tuned suspensions and/or all-season tires on the x-drive cars. In my opinion, x-drive cars (and non-sport RWD 3-Series BMWs) handle more like my parent's E-Class Mercedes than my RWD ZSP/ZMM BMWs with sport-tuned suspensions.

The question I always ask myself when purchasing a BMW is this: “Do I want to compromise chassis dynamics and handling all year long for the few days a year that I might prefer to have an all-wheel-drive vehicle?” In my case, the answer is always “No.”
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      01-27-2016, 12:59 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by NorCalAthlete View Post
I've heard that xDrive isn't a "pure" BMW driving experience...I know that the extra driving wheels can rob a wee bit of power from the engine...little bit less fuel efficient...yet looking at the raw numbers for the 435i, the xDrive is 0.3 seconds faster 0-60. An AWD Subaru WRX has a 5.0 second 0-60 right alongside the RWD 435i, but with 32 less hp. So it seems to me that the AWD can help make a car quicker no?

Personally, while I've driven 435i's, 428i's, 335i's, and now a Subaru WRX...I've never driven a 435i xDrive...or any xDrive BMW for that matter. Time for a test drive perhaps? For those who own an xDrive...does it feel like less of a driving experience than a RWD? I mean I'm guessing most of you with xDrives bought them because you live somewhere with poor weather conditions for a significant chunk of the year, but still...do you think it detracts at all from your fun factor? Or does it add to it?
BMW builds fantastic RWD cars and so so AWD cars. When driving XDrive vs RWD back to back, I didn't find it made a difference in the city that much but when pushed, yes, XDrive understeers. Is that a big problem? It depends on the driver. If I'm in a car with more than the average factory induced understeer, I just turn earlier. Do I prefer RWD over AWD? Yeah. But that doesn't bother me as much as the massive amount of float (i.e. ride height) seen on xDrive models. I didn't think I'd care. Wrong. I cared. Didn't care for xDrive float at all. It does not complement a sport sedan to see the body 'floating' so high.

I think xDrive is pretty much a gimmick to suck more money out of customer wallets. Take for example the 4 series. XDrive on a 340 in Canada is 2k more than RWD. On the 428, it's 5k more. Does that make any sense either than plain old price gouging? The idea you'll get no where in the winter without AWD completely depends on where the car is driven. The overwhelming majority of cars on my street here in 'Winter Wonderland' Toronto, where we've had less snow than Kentucky so far, are FWD. No chaos. No economic collapse. No drama. Streets are well maintained, plowed, and most cars have snow tires. When there is no snow on the road, I'll see the occasional motorcycle on the road, in the winter. One-wheel drive.

I'm not advising you to not spend an extra 2-5k on options but BMW has much better options than xDrive to spend money on.
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      01-27-2016, 01:03 PM   #50
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After this 2 feet snow storm. The biggest issue is the ground clearance than the drive system.
I backed into 1 foot of snow with slight slope and almost got stuck. RWD + Blizzak WS80.

If the car isn't bellied, you probably won't get stuck with either AWD+AllSeason or RWD+Snow.
  • AWD + All Season will give you advantage on launching out of snow pile.
  • RWD + Snow will give you advantage on everything else and overall safety. With the cost being similar or cheaper, and you get better MPG + handling in the warm days.
  • AWD + Snow is your best bet if you must travel during bad conditions.
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      01-28-2016, 09:21 PM   #51
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Waiting on my 228i coupe RWD 6MT......should be at the NH dealership in a couple of weeks.
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      01-29-2016, 12:34 AM   #52
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After trying to build a few cars, I am so bummed that manual tranny as an option is on the 3 x series but not the 2 or 4!! WTF
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      03-23-2017, 01:32 PM   #53
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As a Norwegian living in Norway I regard xDrive as a necessity on a 300+ hp car. There is no fun in losing grip on snowy, icy roads.
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      03-23-2017, 02:55 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trollhunter View Post
As a Norwegian living in Norway I regard xDrive as a necessity on a 300+ hp car. There is no fun in losing grip on snowy, icy roads.
And as a Canadian living in Canada and having both drivetrains in our family, I will once again argue it's not necessity but matter of choice.

Once again, it's tires and modern electronics that'll stop you from loosing grip.
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      03-23-2017, 05:33 PM   #55
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As a Minnesotan living in Minnesota I will agree it is a matter of choice. I will also state categorically that all things being equal an xDrive equipped vehicle will beat a RWD vehicle up to speed in low traction situations every single time.

edit: it will not stop or steer any better though.
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      12-03-2017, 05:00 PM   #56
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I recently purchased a 2015 335i xDrive, and I am regretting it.

I purchased the car as a sort of daily driver, because I don't feel comfortable driving my Model S P85D around NYC everywhere, so I thought xDrive would help deal with the snow NYC gets often. I got the 335i while trading in my E46 M3, and the xDrive is making the car less enjoyable than a RWD 335i, I suspect. Note: I am not comparing the E46 M3 with the F30 335i, they are completely different cars.

I live in a relatively secluded area of the Bronx, and I can get away with some hooligan driving (peeling around corners, slightly kicking the tail out). I used to do it in my E46 often late at night - it was fun lighting the rear tyres up! But I simply cannot do the same to the 335i xDrive as it stands (maybe with some better rubber, JB4, full catback, I could). With all the electronic nannying turned off, I cannot slide the tail out, or burn rubber by simply mashing my right foot.

Don't get me wrong - it's an EXCELLENT daily driver. It's comfortable, very well made, etc. but it's just not drivers car with the xDrive. I'd be pretty disappointed if it were my only car, but I plan on getting a 991 C2S soon, so my desires for a sports car will be alleviated.

One other thing - definitely look into a manual if you're looking for even more of a driver's car. The automatic transmission is fast, but leaves much to be desired in terms of thrill and control, since it's really slow in manual mode from 1st to 2nd, and upshifts on its own when you near redline.
You clearly have no idea what you're talking about so I hope no one's actually listening to this guy. It's the fastest shifting transmission anyone's ever designed that's not a dual-clutch and dual clutch owners say it's the same. Just as fast. Your plan for getting sideways easier is to get better tires? Interesting. And who buys an all wheel drive car and then complains that it has too much traction.?
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      12-03-2017, 07:53 PM   #57
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You can't go wrong with xDrive and snow tires. The car is like a tank.

I used to have RWD E39 with snow tires. It got the job done but going up some hills in my area was always a white knuckle experience.
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      12-04-2017, 08:28 AM   #58
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      12-04-2017, 11:45 AM   #59
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I will say the suspension on this car is really pedestrian. It body rolls and understeers like a pig. For some people it probably handles 'amazing' but from what I'm used to it's closer to a cadillac. It definitely needs some sway bars, slightly stiffer springs, and high end dampers. Probably bushings as well.

The fact that a 300+hp car would come with 225 wide tires is also a joke.
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      12-04-2017, 08:04 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YuminNuman View Post
It definitely needs some sway bars, slightly stiffer springs, and high end dampers. Probably bushings as well.
The fact that a 300+hp car would come with 225 wide tires is also a joke.
Get busy!
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      12-05-2017, 12:39 AM   #61
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Do not ever get an xdrive (regular shitty xdrive, not M-xdrive onF90) on a non SUV bmw.
I drove a e90 323i rwd with about 180hp
And now a f32 435xi with 300.

E90 is much more fun.
Just can't really drift in this shity awd.


Winter?
Get a winter tire and u will be fine.
Just don't turn in the corner at your normal summer speed. It will crash regardless of xdrive or rwd.
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      12-05-2017, 01:06 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stvding View Post
Do not ever get an xdrive (regular shitty xdrive, not M-xdrive onF90) on a non SUV bmw.
I drove a e90 323i rwd with about 180hp
And now a f32 435xi with 300.

E90 is much more fun.
Just can't really drift in this shity awd.


Winter?
Get a winter tire and u will be fine.
Just don't turn in the corner at your normal summer speed. It will crash regardless of xdrive or rwd.
All true, except you can't have any fun swinging out the rear without limited slip anyway and BMW makes you go full M for that. Never much cared for that once you have some HP. No limited slip sucked on my tuned 135i.
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      12-05-2017, 01:09 PM   #63
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stvding View Post
Do not ever get an xdrive (regular shitty xdrive, not M-xdrive onF90) on a non SUV bmw.
I drove a e90 323i rwd with about 180hp
And now a f32 435xi with 300.

E90 is much more fun.
Just can't really drift in this shity awd.


Winter?
Get a winter tire and u will be fine.
Just don't turn in the corner at your normal summer speed. It will crash regardless of xdrive or rwd.
All true, except you can't have any fun swinging out the rear without limited slip anyway and BMW makes you go full M for that. Never much cared for that once you have some HP. No limited slip sucked on my tuned 135i.
Correct. My old e90 323i did struggle to kick the rear out perfectly but still better than xdrive
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      12-05-2017, 01:16 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stvding View Post
Do not ever get an xdrive (regular shitty xdrive, not M-xdrive onF90) on a non SUV bmw.
I drove a e90 323i rwd with about 180hp
And now a f32 435xi with 300.

E90 is much more fun.
Just can't really drift in this shity awd.


Winter?
Get a winter tire and u will be fine.
Just don't turn in the corner at your normal summer speed. It will crash regardless of xdrive or rwd.
Again,depends where you live and how much snow you get.

Lots of people where I live get stuck with RWD at lights or parkings. It snows alot here (average of 30cm a week) and I plow through everything with my xDrive.

And of course you can't drift, it's AWD. Unless you want to break components on your car, and burning through tires for no reason, I would highly advise against drifting.
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      12-05-2017, 02:35 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chaungo View Post
Again,depends where you live and how much snow you get.

Lots of people where I live get stuck with RWD at lights or parkings. It snows alot here (average of 30cm a week) and I plow through everything with my xDrive.

And of course you can't drift, it's AWD. Unless you want to break components on your car, and burning through tires for no reason, I would highly advise against drifting.
Of course there are exceptions, but on this planet, a vast majority won't get stuck with RWD and good snows. I get more snow here than the average cold weather states in the US, and have not gotten stuck in snow on RWD and snows in the 25 years I have been running such a combo.

You and I have disagreed on this topic before. But my short statement is still, unless you get extreme snow (I'll give you 30cm per week) or have snow combined with hills. I would always buy RWD. AWD gives most drivers more confidence than they should have to go, then get into trouble when turning or stopping at speed when it is much more dangerous.

What tires do you run in the winter?
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      12-05-2017, 02:47 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YuminNuman View Post
I will say the suspension on this car is really pedestrian. It body rolls and understeers like a pig. For some people it probably handles 'amazing' but from what I'm used to it's closer to a cadillac. It definitely needs some sway bars, slightly stiffer springs, and high end dampers. Probably bushings as well.

The fact that a 300+hp car would come with 225 wide tires is also a joke.
I thought it was me coming from a Caddy....thanks for this bro
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