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      09-15-2017, 09:21 PM   #1
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Post Latest news on manual transmission & RWD for future M cars

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R&T: BMW M Hasn't Given Up on Rear-Wheel Drive and Manual Transmissions Yet

Of course, the fact that the M5 is going auto only raises the inevitable question of whether it signals the death of manual transmissions. For Van Meel, the answer is no.

"From a rational standpoint, a manual transmission makes no sense—it's slower, and fuel economy is worse than with an automated transmission," Van Meel said. "Put that aside, it has an emotional component, which means there are a lot of people who love manual transmissions."


Drive: Next-gen BMW M2 to stay rear-wheel drive

Speaking at the 2017 Frankfurt motor show BMW board member, Klaus Frolich, confirmed that the M2 would not make the switch to front-wheel drive that many other compact BMWs are slated for.

“It was such a good car … I think it would be a very good idea to continue that legacy,” said Frolich when asked if the M2 would remain rear-wheel drive.
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      09-16-2017, 12:52 AM   #2
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Quote:
"From a rational standpoint, a manual transmission makes no sense—it's slower, and fuel economy is worse than with an automated transmission," Van Meel said. "Put that aside, it has an emotional component, which means there are a lot of people who love manual transmissions."
From a rational standpoint, a BMW makes no sense—it's expensive, and still quite the same thing as another car. Put that aside, it has an emotional component, which means there are a lot of people who love BMWs.
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      09-19-2017, 10:36 AM   #3
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Electric drive will mark the demise of manual transmissions. Not sure how adding electric drive to every BMW in the future syncs up with retaining manual trannys.
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      09-19-2017, 10:48 AM   #4
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Confirming what we already knew through leaks:

- The next generation G42/G43 2 Series coupe/convertible (and thus the G8x M2, too) will remain RWD
- At least one of the next M2, M3, and M4 will still have a manual transmission option (possibly all three)

Questions still remaining:

- RWD or AWD for next generation G80/G82/G83 M3/M4?
- AWD UKL M vehicles when? Generation after "G"?
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      09-19-2017, 10:50 AM   #5
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Ever since automatics improved in the 2000's I've had no desire to own a manual but I can see the appeal. Definitely more connected and engaging experience. I'm just getting old maybe.
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      09-19-2017, 10:55 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glennQNYC View Post
Electric drive will mark the demise of manual transmissions. Not sure how adding electric drive to every BMW in the future syncs up with retaining manual trannys.
Electric cars sees the demise of ALL transmissions!
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      09-19-2017, 10:58 AM   #7
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automatic braking will render the manual obsolete in the US when that becomes a requirement from the federal government. Not sure how you can prevent the manual transmission from stalling the car if the car has to have emergency automatic braking. Im sure its possible but i cant think of how it would work currently.
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      09-19-2017, 10:59 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glennQNYC View Post
Electric drive will mark the demise of manual transmissions.
Eventually, yes. And automated drive will mark the demise of, well, driving eventually too. Neither of those things - the complete elimination of the ICE from new vehicle production, the complete elimination of the steering wheel and pedals - is likely to happen "soon". I think we can agree it won't happen in the 2020's, it is unlikely to happen in the 2030's, but come 2040 we can perhaps start to see the end in sight.

Quote:
Not sure how adding electric drive to every BMW in the future syncs up with retaining manual trannys.
As long as the vehicles still have transmissions, and as long as demand is sufficient, the MT should be safe. With new generations of drivers having different expectations, it may be the case that demand tapers off before the lack of applicability/practicality kills it.
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      09-19-2017, 11:01 AM   #9
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WOOT! There is hope yet.
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      09-19-2017, 11:04 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wdeerfield View Post
automatic braking will render the manual obsolete in the US when that becomes a requirement from the federal government. Not sure how you can prevent the manual transmission from stalling the car if the car has to have emergency automatic braking. Im sure its possible but i cant think of how it would work currently.
Most of these 'advancements' - automatic (or no) transmission, electronically assisted steering, drive by wire, etc... - are a prerequisite for autonomous driving.

I love my 6MT, but the future is inevitable
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      09-19-2017, 11:08 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wdeerfield View Post
automatic braking will render the manual obsolete in the US when that becomes a requirement from the federal government. Not sure how you can prevent the manual transmission from stalling the car if the car has to have emergency automatic braking. Im sure its possible but i cant think of how it would work currently.
Mazda has it with their manual cars.
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      09-19-2017, 11:12 AM   #12
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I'll keep buying manuals as long as they are available. What is the significant difference between the M2, M3, M4 and other similar rear wheel cars if they are all two pedal transportation machines?
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      09-19-2017, 11:12 AM   #13
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Here we go again, manual vs. automatic transmission debate.
Let's begin.
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      09-19-2017, 11:14 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Bread View Post
Mazda has it with their manual cars.
I just discovered that! And the M3/4 already have it as well

Quote:
A handful of automakers currently offer cars with a stick shift and automatic emergency braking. Among them are Mazda and BMW, two brands enthusiasts have long gravitated toward. Instead of a clutch override that prevents their engines from stalling, these cars will actually stall but still come to a stop on their own.

In Mazda's case, the safety tech is available on its Mazda 3 and Mazda 6 compact and mid-size cars with stick shifts. At a BMW dealership, you can pair a manual with automatic emergency braking on the brand's M3 and M4.

We surveyed both brands and found that their cars are capable of automatically halting without any driver intervention in certain situations. Even if the driver doesn't respond to a loud alarm, flashing lights, and even rapid deceleration, the car will stop—and it will stall unless the driver manages to press in the clutch pedal.

Both brands indicated that their cars will still automatically apply the brakes with full force even if the engine itself has stalled. The only real downside here is that the driver needs to manually restart the car in order to begin moving again after (theoretically) avoiding an accident.
source: http://www.thecarconnection.com/news...es-how-and-why
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      09-19-2017, 11:16 AM   #15
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      09-19-2017, 11:20 AM   #16
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There have already been developments which will allow both automated features and electric motors to function while augmented by a MT transmission. Question is if manufacturers will bother. We'll see with the rise of hybrid performance cars.
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      09-19-2017, 11:28 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3M TAPE View Post
Here we go again, manual vs. automatic transmission debate.
Let's begin.
I don't think there is a debate anymore. The writing is on the wall for manuals. The question is how many die hards like me are left and how steep is the trend line for manual sales.
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      09-19-2017, 11:31 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glennQNYC View Post
Electric drive will mark the demise of manual transmissions. Not sure how adding electric drive to every BMW in the future syncs up with retaining manual trannys.
This is THE most logical reason why manual transmission won't survive.
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      09-19-2017, 11:33 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShocknAwe View Post
There have already been developments which will allow both automated features and electric motors to function while augmented by a MT transmission.
Yep. Seems unlikely to be practical, though.

http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1...-transmissions

Quote:
Question is if manufacturers will bother. We'll see with the rise of hybrid performance cars.
I don't think they will due to costs. Porsche is already saying they won't even build hybrids with manual transmissions:

http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars...ual-gearboxes/

So pure electric Porsches with manuals are all but guaranteed not to happen. I do think that some companies will build hybrids with manuals though, and I think that BMW is as likely a candidate as any other.
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      09-19-2017, 11:55 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by No one View Post
Quote:
"From a rational standpoint, a manual transmission makes no sense—it's slower, and fuel economy is worse than with an automated transmission," Van Meel said. "Put that aside, it has an emotional component, which means there are a lot of people who love manual transmissions."
From a rational standpoint, a BMW makes no sense—it's expensive, and still quite the same thing as another car. Put that aside, it has an emotional component, which means there are a lot of people who love BMWs.
I see what you did there !

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      09-19-2017, 11:58 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3M TAPE View Post
Here we go again, manual vs. automatic transmission debate.
Let's begin.
Oh wait. So the MT vs AT debate was actually finished? The same debate that's been going on since the 1930s when the automatic began being made ?

Yes. We will have to restart it then yes.

Let's check the score....

The semi automatic hasn't killed the MT.
The CVT hasn't killed the MT.
The Tiptronic didn't.
The SMG definitely didn't kill MT.
The PDK Hasn't killed MT.
The DCT hasn't killed MT.
The 8AT hasn't killed MT.

The electric motor .... ? Won't kill MT.
Self driving cars won't kill the MT.

As long as there are PEOPLE driving cars, the MT will survive.
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      09-19-2017, 12:01 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wdeerfield View Post
automatic braking will render the manual obsolete in the US when that becomes a requirement from the federal government. Not sure how you can prevent the manual transmission from stalling the car if the car has to have emergency automatic braking. Im sure its possible but i cant think of how it would work currently.
There are designs out there that will put the car in neutral controlled by the computer. This is a minor issue.
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