F30POST
F30POST
2012-2015 BMW 3-Series and 4-Series Forum
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
BMW 3-Series and 4-Series Forum (F30 / F32) | F30POST > Technical Forums > Navigation, iDrive, Audio, Video, Bluetooth, Phone, Cameras, Electronics > F30 amp wiring / harness
proTUNING Freaks
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      11-09-2017, 02:54 AM   #23
twodoor
Private
twodoor's Avatar
23
Rep
66
Posts

Drives: X3 30i G01 2020
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Transylvania

iTrader: (0)

Thanks for the info ahlq1977 , that's good to know.

I think my final setup will be like this, 6 channels for subs+front+rear:



With this config, the front speakers and subs (total 4ch) will be powered by the Eton 100.6 amp and the rear+center will still work on the stock HiFi amp. In the future maybe I'll get the B100 XW for the rear speakers, since I don't have the tweeter mounting holes in the rear doors.

I thought about getting the Stage 6 instead of 100.6 but I'm not sure if the DSP is worth an extra ~220 EUR.
Appreciate 0
      11-09-2017, 07:54 AM   #24
Encanto
Colonel
Encanto's Avatar
United_States
1161
Rep
2,180
Posts

Drives: 2021 X3 M40i
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Ohio

iTrader: (1)

Once you get all that then please show us how you wired the Eton harness to your HiFi system, how you connected balanced signals to the Eton amplifier, and why a 6ch amp for just 4 speakers when there is a 4ch available.

Quote:
Originally Posted by twodoor View Post
Thanks for the info ahlq1977 , that's good to know.

I think my final setup will be like this, 6 channels for subs+front+rear:



With this config, the front speakers and subs (total 4ch) will be powered by the Eton 100.6 amp and the rear+center will still work on the stock HiFi amp. In the future maybe I'll get the B100 XW for the rear speakers, since I don't have the tweeter mounting holes in the rear doors.

I thought about getting the Stage 6 instead of 100.6 but I'm not sure if the DSP is worth an extra ~220 EUR.
Appreciate 0
      11-09-2017, 08:16 AM   #25
twodoor
Private
twodoor's Avatar
23
Rep
66
Posts

Drives: X3 30i G01 2020
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Transylvania

iTrader: (0)

To have +2 for the rear speakers.

1: left sub
2: right sub
3. left front
4. right front
5. left rear
6. right rear

Quote:
Originally Posted by twodoor View Post
(...) In the future maybe I'll get the B100 XW for the rear speakers, since I don't have the tweeter mounting holes in the rear doors.
Appreciate 0
      11-09-2017, 09:01 AM   #26
Encanto
Colonel
Encanto's Avatar
United_States
1161
Rep
2,180
Posts

Drives: 2021 X3 M40i
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Ohio

iTrader: (1)

Did you ask Eton if any of their amps accept balanced signals?

Quote:
Originally Posted by twodoor View Post
To have +2 for the rear speakers.

1: left sub
2: right sub
3. left front
4. right front
5. left rear
6. right rear
Appreciate 0
      11-16-2017, 09:09 AM   #27
gtthree
Private First Class
44
Rep
195
Posts

Drives: F10 530d
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: UK

iTrader: (0)

There was no need for the Eton BAKS - a technic harness would have been a better approach.

That way you can just disconnect the BMW hifi amp and plug in the eton amp.

I have a similar system, Eton subs, eton door speakers, HK rear speakers and a Eton DSP8 CAN which I used to upgrade my european base hifi (no tweeters).

The sound in incredibly improved and very clear.
Appreciate 0
      11-16-2017, 02:04 PM   #28
cjsansom
Private
6
Rep
50
Posts

Drives: 2012 F30
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Utah

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by twodoor View Post
(I saw the Technic harness mentioned throughout the forum), but I need it shipped in the EU.
eBay ships to the EU. BMW Harness
Appreciate 0
      11-16-2017, 02:12 PM   #29
cjsansom
Private
6
Rep
50
Posts

Drives: 2012 F30
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Utah

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by twodoor View Post
The only plug&play amp that I could find is the Bimmer Tech BT_PP82DSP, which is $900. I think that's a bit too much to spend only on an amp.
$673 (572 euro) any better?
Appreciate 0
      11-17-2017, 03:49 AM   #30
twodoor
Private
twodoor's Avatar
23
Rep
66
Posts

Drives: X3 30i G01 2020
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Transylvania

iTrader: (0)

gtthree
The Eton DSP 8 CAN has some proprietary connectors, not sure how you connected the harness to it.

cjsansom
I would have to pay the same price for using the harness you mentioned from ebay or using Eton BAKs. Plus, the harness would require a 7-channel amp/dsp for the center speaker.
This way I have two options:
1. get a 4-channel amp for front left/right and subs, thus still using the stock amp for center/rear speakers
2. get a 6-channel amp to also connect the rear speakers, thus still using the stock amp only for the center speaker

The Match amplifier is also available in my country, but they don't have a harness available for HiFi. Another forum member told me that bimmertech sold him the harness without the Bimmertech PP82DSP amp but it costed ~$200, so add another aprox. $650 for the Match amp it's almost 900. Eton Stage 6 + Eton BAK is just under $700. With a SDA amp even cheaper.

Besides, I found a shop in Hungary that is ~200km away and it's easier to just go to them and pick everything up instead of ordering overseas.

It's always easier to order stuff in the US and I feel like an intruder here, since the forum is mostly populated with US members
I appreciate all the suggestions.
Appreciate 0
      11-17-2017, 12:30 PM   #31
cjsansom
Private
6
Rep
50
Posts

Drives: 2012 F30
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Utah

iTrader: (0)

So I'm not trying to talk you out of your choice. I'm just trying to point out it's not as difficult as you are making it out to be. You can splice Technic's harness into pretty much ANY other AMP or even multiple AMPs. Just because a 'ready made' PnP harness is pricey doesn't mean you couldn't make your own PnP harness. Be as sloppy and lazy as you want, just twist the wires together and then tape them. Or be slick and Solder them and insulate with shrink tubing. Or Crimp connectors onto them. OR WHATEVER (You could also just take the AMP harness and the Technic BMW harness to your local shop and just pay them to professionally splice them together)

Quote:
Originally Posted by twodoor View Post
gtthree
The Eton DSP 8 CAN has some proprietary connectors, not sure how you connected the harness to it. Eton Pinout
The only thing close to being a proprietary connector on that ETON is the CAN bus and IR remote. You have a non HK F30 676 HiFi, and that system doesn't even use the CAN bus. Anyway the way you connect it is to simply splice the wire from the Technic harness into the correct wire on the Eton harness.

Also with the Technic harness there would be nothing stopping you from using 2 separate 4 channel amps or even 4 separate 2 channel amps to run all your speakers. You simply splice the speaker out wires of the AMPs into the Technic harness.

Quote:
Originally Posted by twodoor View Post
cjsansom
The Match amplifier is also available in my country, but they don't have a harness available for HiFi. Another forum member told me that bimmertech sold him the harness without the Bimmertech PP82DSP amp but it costed ~$200, so add another aprox..
You don't need a Plug and Play harness pre made for you. Just get the Technic harness and cut the factory Match harness and solder them together. BOOM, you just made your own PnP harness.

Technic/73MustangConv BMW 676 hifi Harness You'll be cutting off the RCA connectors and splicing directly to the AMPs harness.


Harness included with the Match PP82DSP AMP (You are cutting this harness in half, and keeping the side with the white MOLEX connection. Splice that into the Technic Harness.


Pinout of the PP82DSP


Pinout overlaid on PP82DSP. In this example I'm using Channel D's RCA output to drive a separate AMP for a trunk subwoofer.


Really the only thing Bimmertech is doing so they can claim it's 100% Plug and Play is drawing power from the BMW harness. Not sure this 'feature' is worth the $200 Bimmertech is charging for their harness. The car battery is literally 4 feet away, it's not difficult for you to direct wire to chassis for ground and the battery for power.

Last edited by cjsansom; 11-17-2017 at 01:23 PM..
Appreciate 2
twodoor23.00
      11-20-2017, 02:20 AM   #32
twodoor
Private
twodoor's Avatar
23
Rep
66
Posts

Drives: X3 30i G01 2020
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Transylvania

iTrader: (0)

Ok, I just ordered the Technic harness... It's easier afterwards to connect an amp for all channels (so yes I'm getting the PP82DSP since I can order it from within my country for ~550USD).
Thanks for the heads-up, I still am a bit in doubt about the included harness in the PP82DSP package, but after a closer look I realised the 20-pin connector is the same as a PC power supply 20-pin connector, so worst case scenario I'll have to improvise.
Appreciate 0
      11-20-2017, 10:02 PM   #33
cjsansom
Private
6
Rep
50
Posts

Drives: 2012 F30
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Utah

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by twodoor View Post
Ok, I just ordered the Technic harness... It's easier afterwards to connect an amp for all channels (so yes I'm getting the PP82DSP since I can order it from within my country for ~550USD).
Thanks for the heads-up, I still am a bit in doubt about the included harness in the PP82DSP package, but after a closer look I realised the 20-pin connector is the same as a PC power supply 20-pin connector, so worst case scenario I'll have to improvise.

So I'm in the same boat as you. I bought a PP82DSP new in box for $500. And the harness from 73Mustangconv off of eBay should arrive next week. All the pinout info above has been from my prep work. I'm not drawing power from the BMW harness so I also picked up an AMP power kit to hard wire to my battery. Again, don't forget that you can still go to your local shop and pay them to splice your harness. You always have options.

Check out my build components so far.

I actually agreed to pay Bimmertech for their harness but after 2 months of me BEGGING Nelson to take my money (he never sent me the invoice for the $199) I just said 'F' it, I can do it myself.

Last edited by cjsansom; 11-20-2017 at 10:09 PM..
Appreciate 0
      11-21-2017, 03:46 AM   #34
twodoor
Private
twodoor's Avatar
23
Rep
66
Posts

Drives: X3 30i G01 2020
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Transylvania

iTrader: (0)

I ordered the DSP yesterday, but the Match importer called to inform me that PP82DSP is no longer being manufactured, because they have an updated version: PP86DSP, so they're shipping the PP86DSP for the PP82DSP price. Also asked about any included cables, they said it's something generic that won't fit my needs but I'm waiting for the harness from 73Mustangconv.
Tomorrow the amp should arrive, I'm very curious on what is actually included in the PP86DSP box and if I can make any adjustments without cutting the cable (in order to not void the warranty).

I'm very curious how the stock HiFi speakers sound with a different amp/dsp, to see if this statement is true:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Billfitz View Post
You may well find that the stock speakers sound perfectly fine with a better amp. I haven't found a single instance yet where replacement speakers provide definitive objective data that prove the claims made for their superiority to the OEM drivers.
My wallet would be so happy if that's the case.
Appreciate 0
      12-09-2017, 05:46 PM   #35
cjsansom
Private
6
Rep
50
Posts

Drives: 2012 F30
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Utah

iTrader: (0)

I've had all the parts and everything ready for over a week now, so today I finally decided to get it done. I cut the Fisher-Audiotec harness in half and soldered the 41 pin audio harness I got off eBay. Turns out I should have cut a Lot more than half off the Fisher-Audiotec harness. The harness is much longer than it needs to be, but oh well.

I ran a power connection over to the other side of the trunk and connected into the battery. There is an existing convenient ground point just above the amps mounting location so that was convenient.

I verified audio worked and buttoned the trunk panels back up. Now comes the fun part of connecting my PC to the amp and picking a tune file I like best!

I still have the 2nd amp and the stealth subwoofer box to install, but I'll save that for another weekend.
Appreciate 0
      12-11-2017, 06:00 AM   #36
twodoor
Private
twodoor's Avatar
23
Rep
66
Posts

Drives: X3 30i G01 2020
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Transylvania

iTrader: (0)

That's great

I'm still waiting for the ebay harness to arrive... It's been 2 weeks with no shipping updates
Meanwhile I've finished making the custom cable that will be connected to the PP86DSP. It's been tough finding some AWG 16-18 wires, since I got the white 20pin connector from an old Delux PC power supply and swapped the wires from a newer 20+4pin PC power supply (the newer one doesn't have the securing notch in the middle since it's 20+4):





The other two connectors (EF input and EFGH output) are included in the DSP's box so no need to worry about those. In the manual I saw an example setup that was mentioning the Match MW 8BMW-D subs, investigated a bit and I think I'll grab a pair of those, for ~200 euros I get both pieces instead of paying ~230 euros for just one ETON.

https://www.audiotec-fischer.de/en/m...kers/mw-8bmw-d
Appreciate 0
      12-11-2017, 11:22 AM   #37
cjsansom
Private
6
Rep
50
Posts

Drives: 2012 F30
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Utah

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by twodoor View Post
That's great

I'm still waiting for the ebay harness to arrive... It's been 2 weeks with no shipping updates
Meanwhile I've finished making the custom cable that will be connected to the PP86DSP.
I'm confused. Why did you have to create a custom cable that connects to the PP86DSP? The PP86DSP should come with it's own harness. You just cut that harness in half and splice it into the ebay harness.

The harness that is included with the PP82DSP looks like this.
Appreciate 0
      12-12-2017, 01:14 AM   #38
twodoor
Private
twodoor's Avatar
23
Rep
66
Posts

Drives: X3 30i G01 2020
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Transylvania

iTrader: (0)

Simple: warranty :P
If something goes wrong with the amp and I need to send it to the shop for warranty, they also need the cable to be intact.

I just picked up the harness, can't wait to set everything up!
Appreciate 0
      12-12-2017, 02:42 PM   #39
twodoor
Private
twodoor's Avatar
23
Rep
66
Posts

Drives: X3 30i G01 2020
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Transylvania

iTrader: (0)

Ok folks, I just finished setting everything up, so here it is: what I had to buy to make this work and my feedback for the Match PP86DSP vs stock BMW F30 HiFi (non-HK) speakers.

What I bought (so far):
1. Match PP86DSP - this is the newer version of PP82DSP
2. Custom harness - link
3. Old PC power supply 20+4 pin cables - I had to get more in order to use at least 18 AWG wires (hint - you can also use the PP ISO cable included in the PP86DSP package, you just have to cut it)
4. Power cables and a 40A fuse that I strapped on the positive cable, about 10cm from the battery

This is how I wired up everything:



There are quite a few videos/posts on how to install a new amp in an F30:

forum link
youtube video

I am very pleased with the results. The PP86DSP is an awesome gadget and the software is incredibly well built, although it initially looks scary and complicated, playing with some demos first will help you understand it. Calibrating the frequencies the way I wanted made me hear sounds that I wasn't hearing before in the car from tracks that I listen to very often.

In comparison, the stock BMW amp is not that bad, it makes the speakers sound loud and boomy but I was never pleased with the high amount of bass that was pushed to the subs, thus causing distortion. The bass setting from the dash was always at mid level, and if I wanted to listen to a track at higher volumes I always had to lower the bass to keep the subs from sounding like a farting bear.

I've set the front speaker gains to -2db and the subs to +2db, if I set them to 0db I hardly hear any bass and the fronts are a bit too loud. But now, if I turn the dash volume at max level, the speakers are performing correctly, at their highest non-distorting volume. And it's not very higher than the stock amp, the real difference is that the songs are playing correctly, I can hear every sound as it was supposed to be heard. The stock amp cuts a lot of frequencies and some bass notes were played back a lot higher than others.

The PP86DSP manual helped me a lot, it has great recommendations about the cables, how to set it up, basically everything you need to know about the little fella.

Now I only have to come up with a better way of strapping the amp to the stock bracket since now I just secured it in place with zip ties. And of course, play with them frequencies

I want to thank everyone that posted on this thread, every opinion mattered and helped me in making this investment (which so far costed me around $650). Cheers all!
Appreciate 0
      12-12-2017, 06:43 PM   #40
Encanto
Colonel
Encanto's Avatar
United_States
1161
Rep
2,180
Posts

Drives: 2021 X3 M40i
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Ohio

iTrader: (1)

FYI: that is a copy of the TechnicPnP harness.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cjsansom View Post
So I'm not trying to talk you out of your choice. I'm just trying to point out it's not as difficult as you are making it out to be. You can splice Technic's harness into pretty much ANY other AMP or even multiple AMPs. Just because a 'ready made' PnP harness is pricey doesn't mean you couldn't make your own PnP harness. Be as sloppy and lazy as you want, just twist the wires together and then tape them. Or be slick and Solder them and insulate with shrink tubing. Or Crimp connectors onto them. OR WHATEVER (You could also just take the AMP harness and the Technic BMW harness to your local shop and just pay them to professionally splice them together)



The only thing close to being a proprietary connector on that ETON is the CAN bus and IR remote. You have a non HK F30 676 HiFi, and that system doesn't even use the CAN bus. Anyway the way you connect it is to simply splice the wire from the Technic harness into the correct wire on the Eton harness.

Also with the Technic harness there would be nothing stopping you from using 2 separate 4 channel amps or even 4 separate 2 channel amps to run all your speakers. You simply splice the speaker out wires of the AMPs into the Technic harness.



You don't need a Plug and Play harness pre made for you. Just get the Technic harness and cut the factory Match harness and solder them together. BOOM, you just made your own PnP harness.

Technic/73MustangConv BMW 676 hifi Harness You'll be cutting off the RCA connectors and splicing directly to the AMPs harness.


Harness included with the Match PP82DSP AMP (You are cutting this harness in half, and keeping the side with the white MOLEX connection. Splice that into the Technic Harness.


Pinout of the PP82DSP


Pinout overlaid on PP82DSP. In this example I'm using Channel D's RCA output to drive a separate AMP for a trunk subwoofer.


Really the only thing Bimmertech is doing so they can claim it's 100% Plug and Play is drawing power from the BMW harness. Not sure this 'feature' is worth the $200 Bimmertech is charging for their harness. The car battery is literally 4 feet away, it's not difficult for you to direct wire to chassis for ground and the battery for power.
Appreciate 0
      12-14-2017, 04:27 PM   #41
gtthree
Private First Class
44
Rep
195
Posts

Drives: F10 530d
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: UK

iTrader: (0)

Apologies I've not been on the forum for a while.

To answer your question

The Eton DSP 8 CAN has some proprietary connectors, not sure how you connected the harness to it.?

The Eton system came with two short harnesses input and output each was1 to 2 foot long and they plug direct into the DSP unit. Each wire on these of these harness had a bullet connector (male or female depending on whether it was +ve or -ve).

As my technic harness was not terminated i.e. bear wires, I just bought some additional bullet connectors and plastic insulation covers and crimped them onto the technic harness.

If carrying out the upgrade again as I had the european base system (no amp no tweeters) I would use the Eton DAKS as it was much easier to access the under seat woofers rather than take out the head unit (access is very tight).
I would build my own equivalent harness for the rear speakers.
The Eton DSP is signal sensitive so does not require the remote switch on.
Appreciate 0
      02-08-2018, 04:48 PM   #42
JneneJ
Private
United_States
8
Rep
61
Posts

Drives: 2018 320i
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Newark ca

iTrader: (0)

I know this thread is old by can someone explain to me why the technic harness has only front and rear rcas? What about the 3rd set for the underneath woofers? I've been installing car audio my self for years but I am new to factory integrated systems. Thanks in advance
__________________
Jb
Appreciate 1
      02-09-2018, 07:12 AM   #43
twodoor
Private
twodoor's Avatar
23
Rep
66
Posts

Drives: X3 30i G01 2020
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Transylvania

iTrader: (0)

The RCAs are the inputs that go in the aftermarket DSP/amp, and ideally the DSP/amp should have 4 inputs and 7 outputs. So it's something like this:

iDrive >output> FL FR RL RR >input> DSP/amp >output> FL FR RL RR SL SR C
Appreciate 0
      11-29-2019, 12:51 AM   #44
MinhPT
New Member
4
Rep
18
Posts

Drives: 218i
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Vietnam

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by cjsansom View Post
So I'm not trying to talk you out of your choice. I'm just trying to point out it's not as difficult as you are making it out to be. You can splice Technic's harness into pretty much ANY other AMP or even multiple AMPs. Just because a 'ready made' PnP harness is pricey doesn't mean you couldn't make your own PnP harness. Be as sloppy and lazy as you want, just twist the wires together and then tape them. Or be slick and Solder them and insulate with shrink tubing. Or Crimp connectors onto them. OR WHATEVER (You could also just take the AMP harness and the Technic BMW harness to your local shop and just pay them to professionally splice them together)



The only thing close to being a proprietary connector on that ETON is the CAN bus and IR remote. You have a non HK F30 676 HiFi, and that system doesn't even use the CAN bus. Anyway the way you connect it is to simply splice the wire from the Technic harness into the correct wire on the Eton harness.

Also with the Technic harness there would be nothing stopping you from using 2 separate 4 channel amps or even 4 separate 2 channel amps to run all your speakers. You simply splice the speaker out wires of the AMPs into the Technic harness.



You don't need a Plug and Play harness pre made for you. Just get the Technic harness and cut the factory Match harness and solder them together. BOOM, you just made your own PnP harness.

Technic/73MustangConv BMW 676 hifi Harness You'll be cutting off the RCA connectors and splicing directly to the AMPs harness.


Harness included with the Match PP82DSP AMP (You are cutting this harness in half, and keeping the side with the white MOLEX connection. Splice that into the Technic Harness.


Pinout of the PP82DSP


Pinout overlaid on PP82DSP. In this example I'm using Channel D's RCA output to drive a separate AMP for a trunk subwoofer.


Really the only thing Bimmertech is doing so they can claim it's 100% Plug and Play is drawing power from the BMW harness. Not sure this 'feature' is worth the $200 Bimmertech is charging for their harness. The car battery is literally 4 feet away, it's not difficult for you to direct wire to chassis for ground and the battery for power.
Do you have the pinout diagram of Bimmertech PP86DSP?

I have this amp, the cable is for BMW with the dedicated amplifier, but my BMW is base audio without dedicated amplifier.
I may have to DIY the cable to install the bimmertech amp in my car.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:06 AM.




f30post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST