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      10-25-2017, 11:21 PM   #1
mtoosexy
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We need more race cars with manual transmissions

M4 GT4 is DCT only:

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1433937

I will give $10,000 extra for a third pedal!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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      10-26-2017, 09:27 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by mtoosexy View Post
I will give $10,000 extra for a third pedal!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Why would you . Those are race cars all about going as fast as possible within the regulation boundaries. A "third pedal" would make the cars slower.
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      10-26-2017, 11:20 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3
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Originally Posted by mtoosexy View Post
I will give $10,000 extra for a third pedal!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Why would you . Those are race cars all about going as fast as possible within the regulation boundaries. A "third pedal" would make the cars slower.
My paycheck does not depend on a few +/- seconds around a track. Aren't we doing track days for fun? im not worried IN THE LEAST if i get beat by 5 seconds on a Saturday track day, As long as I'm enjoying my manual.
p.s. I bet i still beat an automatic around the track 1 out of 3 times. the driver still matters.
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      10-27-2017, 07:32 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtoosexy View Post
My paycheck does not depend on a few +/- seconds around a track. Aren't we doing track days for fun? im not worried IN THE LEAST if i get beat by 5 seconds on a Saturday track day, As long as I'm enjoying my manual.
p.s. I bet i still beat an automatic around the track 1 out of 3 times. the driver still matters.
Then the GT4 is not for you. You realize this car is not street legal?
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      10-27-2017, 10:47 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtoosexy View Post
My paycheck does not depend on a few +/- seconds around a track. Aren't we doing track days for fun?
The car was built specifically for and only for people whose paychecks do depend on winning. It is a factory race car built to win races, and by design not meant to have any appeal whatsoever to enthusiasts doing track days for fun.
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      10-27-2017, 11:24 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtoosexy View Post
My paycheck does not depend on a few +/- seconds around a track. Aren't we doing track days for fun?
The car was built specifically for and only for people whose paychecks do depend on winning. It is a factory race car built to win races, and by design not meant to have any appeal whatsoever to enthusiasts doing track days for fun.
So according to what u are saying, only a professional race team with hired race car drivers can purchase this car? ...Is this true? If so, u are correct, i will look at another car. GT3 is up my alley.
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      10-27-2017, 11:36 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtoosexy View Post
So according to what u are saying, only a professional race team with hired race car drivers can purchase this car? ...Is this true? If so, u are correct, i will look at another car. GT3 is up my alley.
Anyone can purchase the car but it is not street legal so you can only use this for racing. Normally, a privateer would not have the funds to not only purchase this car but be able to race it in a season. Believe me, i have tried and being a privateer is not fun.
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      10-27-2017, 11:36 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtoosexy View Post
So according to what u are saying, only a professional race team with hired race car drivers can purchase this car? ...Is this true? If so, u are correct, i will look at another car. GT3 is up my alley.
Technically anyone with the cash can purchase the car, as far as I know. But its built specifically to be raced in professional (possibly some pro-am) racing series. Its built to spec, not to taste.

If you are cross-shopping the GT3, then yes, you are completely in left field with this car. The GT3 is a street car. This is a race car. The Porsche "equivalent" is here:

https://www.porsche.com/usa/eventsan...gt4-clubsport/

If you were not in the market for that, then you were not in the market for this M4 either.

And notice the Porsche has a PDK.
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      10-27-2017, 11:49 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Parabolica
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtoosexy View Post
So according to what u are saying, only a professional race team with hired race car drivers can purchase this car? ...Is this true? If so, u are correct, i will look at another car. GT3 is up my alley.
Anyone can purchase the car but it is not street legal so you can only use this for racing. Normally, a privateer would not have the funds to not only purchase this car but be able to race it in a season. Believe me, i have tried and being a privateer is not fun.
I hear ya
ya, i am no where near a professional driver. Just looking for a Saturday track car. :
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      10-27-2017, 11:58 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtoosexy View Post
So according to what u are saying, only a professional race team with hired race car drivers can purchase this car? ...Is this true? If so, u are correct, i will look at another car. GT3 is up my alley.
Technically anyone with the cash can purchase the car, as far as I know. But its built specifically to be raced in professional (possibly some pro-am) racing series. Its built to spec, not to taste.

If you are cross-shopping the GT3, then yes, you are completely in left field with this car. The GT3 is a street car. This is a race car. The Porsche "equivalent" is here:

https://www.porsche.com/usa/eventsan...gt4-clubsport/

If you were not in the market for that, then you were not in the market for this M4 either.

And notice the Porsche has a PDK.
I'm not looking for this to be a daily driver. JUST a Saturday track car. yes, i have cross shopped the gt4 cayman...it's growing on me. prefer the looks of the gt3.
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      10-27-2017, 11:59 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtoosexy View Post
I'm not looking for this to be a daily driver. JUST a Saturday track car. yes, i have cross shopped the gt4 cayman...it's growing on me. prefer the looks of the gt3.
Yo, that's a Cayman GT4 *Clubsport*, bro. Its a race car. You have not cross-shopped that car.
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      10-27-2017, 12:35 PM   #12
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      10-27-2017, 02:02 PM   #13
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Quote:
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I hear ya
ya, i am no where near a professional driver. Just looking for a Saturday track car. :
Dude, if thats the case, you should look at the M4 GTS.
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      10-27-2017, 02:19 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Parabolica
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtoosexy View Post
I hear ya
ya, i am no where near a professional driver. Just looking for a Saturday track car. :
Dude, if thats the case, you should look at the M4 GTS.
it's only money, i will look at them all
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      10-27-2017, 02:27 PM   #15
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Dude, if thats the case, you should look at the M4 GTS.
The M4 GTS is however also only available with DCT...
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      10-27-2017, 05:02 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
Why would you . Those are race cars all about going as fast as possible within the regulation boundaries. A "third pedal" would make the cars slower.
because it would make the drivers actually have to master additional skillz! #takeprideinwhatyoudo

in horse racing... (where the same goal is to be fast by the way) .. Does the rider just sit in the saddle and let the horse do all the work ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mtoosexy View Post
My paycheck does not depend on a few +/- seconds around a track. Aren't we doing track days for fun? im not worried IN THE LEAST if i get beat by 5 seconds on a Saturday track day, As long as I'm enjoying my manual.
p.s. I bet i still beat an automatic around the track 1 out of 3 times. the driver still matters.

Agree with you completely when it comes to personal vehicles.. . of course many of these vehicles will end up in a spec series that may mandate automatic transmissions.
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      10-27-2017, 07:04 PM   #17
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The M4 GTS is however also only available with DCT...
Shhhhh.
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      10-28-2017, 01:40 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtoosexy View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtoosexy View Post
I will give $10,000 extra for a third pedal!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Why would you . Those are race cars all about going as fast as possible within the regulation boundaries. A "third pedal" would make the cars slower.
My paycheck does not depend on a few +/- seconds around a track. Aren't we doing track days for fun? im not worried IN THE LEAST if i get beat by 5 seconds on a Saturday track day, As long as I'm enjoying my manual.
p.s. I bet i still beat an automatic around the track 1 out of 3 times. the driver still matters.
Clone yourself and the YOU in the manual will always be slower but that YOU would be having a blast. A proper DCT will always be faster on a track period. The driver matters most but if skills are level.....DCT always beats a stick!
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      10-28-2017, 02:05 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrippy
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtoosexy View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtoosexy View Post
I will give $10,000 extra for a third pedal!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Why would you . Those are race cars all about going as fast as possible within the regulation boundaries. A "third pedal" would make the cars slower.
My paycheck does not depend on a few +/- seconds around a track. Aren't we doing track days for fun? im not worried IN THE LEAST if i get beat by 5 seconds on a Saturday track day, As long as I'm enjoying my manual.
p.s. I bet i still beat an automatic around the track 1 out of 3 times. the driver still matters.
Clone yourself and the YOU in the manual will always be slower but that YOU would be having a blast. A proper DCT will always be faster on a track period. The driver matters most but if skills are level.....DCT always beats a stick!
completely agree!! automatic is faster than I would ever be able to manually change gears...nor am I as intuitive as a machine bred and built to do the shifting . But man would it be fun to try...in order to keep it competitive I will give the automatic guys the few second advantage
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      10-29-2017, 07:43 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by mtoosexy View Post
completely agree!! automatic is faster than I would ever be able to manually change gears...nor am I as intuitive as a machine bred and built to do the shifting . But man would it be fun to try...in order to keep it competitive I will give the automatic guys the few second advantage
I think MT folks are missing the point that DCT can be "manually" shifted. There is no "intuitivity" aspect needed for the transmission, the driver still remains in the best position to anticipate and determine what gear should be used. The DCT is faster because it can shift gears without interrupting power to the drive wheels during a shift, while with a traditional MT, there will be an inherent short deceleration while the clutch is engaged, the gear is changed and clutch re-engaged. Further, with a DCT, since there is no interruption of power during a shift, it is possible to shift while cornering without upsetting the balance of the chassis. DCT is faster because th way it operates, not because it can "automatically" change gears.
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      10-29-2017, 07:50 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
because it would make the drivers actually have to master additional skillz! #takeprideinwhatyoudo

in horse racing... (where the same goal is to be fast by the way) .. Does the rider just sit in the saddle and let the horse do all the work ?
While we are at it, they should also remove the DSC and ABS from the GT4, with the front-rear brake bias manually set by the driver to put more on the driver. And remove the synchros from the gearbox, so they really learn how to shift gears. And why not remove power steering and brake assistance so they can truly exercise their skills with arm and leg muscles. Maybe we should also have the drivers set the ignition advance manually, like in the good ol' days, as well as have them set the fuel mixture manually, that'd be a hoot. Only the "true" drivers would win ...
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      10-29-2017, 09:30 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
While we are at it, they should also remove the DSC and ABS from the GT4, with the front-rear brake bias manually set by the driver to put more on the driver. And remove the synchros from the gearbox, so they really learn how to shift gears. And why not remove power steering and brake assistance so they can truly exercise their skills with arm and leg muscles. Maybe we should also have the drivers set the ignition advance manually, like in the good ol' days, as well as have them set the fuel mixture manually, that'd be a hoot. Only the "true" drivers would win ...
You went too extreme...why not talk about not even having an engine and race on bare feet?

The thing is Manual does offer more options than DCT in driving dynamics where as the removal of power steering does not. One example is you can ride the clutch while throttle on as a way of traction control during cornering (but keep turbo boost up because there is still throttle input) where as with DCT you are either left to electronics or simply throttle down or off with boost down.
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