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      11-22-2017, 08:22 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nantucket View Post
The 6MT is still available.

BTW,aren’t you buying the M2 CSL in 2019 if it still has the 6MT?

at the risk of being redundant....

Auto rev match (as part of a 6MT) is not old school
EPS is not old school
DCT- definitely new school
piped in in motor sounds are not old school

if something is going to be considered old school.. it must be that.. it cannot just have a single element that is old school (like a 6MT)

I updated the prior post with some additional references for definitions - should clear things up for ya!

And yes.. If the 2020 M2 CSL comes out with a 6 MT.. I will have one.
But for damn sure, I won't say " it's the last of the old school. " .. because nothing from 2019 is going to be OLD SCHOOL for a LONG LONG time.
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      11-22-2017, 08:28 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amgeater2 View Post
because there will always be those that can't move forward but rather complaint and don t move at all.. We see them in all aspects of life not just here or our forum. which it's totally ok.. but what I don't understand is how they come to conclusions, complaints, and or even full blown statements how bmw M division is not moving in the right direction without real information about the cars...:
For sure.

100 years ago you had to crank our engine over, literally, by hand...with a crank. You had no power steering and non synchronized transmissions. You had to manually adjust the ignition advance on the fly. Manual brakes too. Driving took skill and courage. I'll bet there were those who lamented all these facets of motoring disappearing, making cars so easy to drive "even a woman could do it." Well times change and progress marches on. I say bring it on BMW. Cant wait to see what they come up with. And for those of us who really miss the "good old days" we can certainly go out and buy whatever second car fits our definition of "old school", be it from the 90s, 80s, 70s, 60s, 50s,.....
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      11-22-2017, 08:31 PM   #25
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In for the "e46 was the best bring it back" shit show.
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      11-22-2017, 08:31 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DETRoadster View Post
For sure.

100 years ago you had to crank our engine over, literally, by hand...with a crank. You had no power steering and non synchronized transmissions. You had to manually adjust the ignition advance on the fly. Manual brakes too. Driving took skill and courage. I'll bet there were those who lamented all these facets of motoring disappearing, making cars so easy to drive "even a woman could do it." Well times change and progress marches on. I say bring it on BMW. Cant wait to see what they come up with. And for those of us who really miss the "good old days" we can certainly go out and buy whatever second car fits our definition of "old school", be it from the 90s, 80s, 70s, 60s, 50s,.....

there are some of us who still lament facets of motoring disappearing... namely.... the art of shifting a transmission.

We currently have a generation of drivers that are
SO AFRAID OF DAMAGING THEIR CAR ON TRACK
SO AFRAID THAT THEIR LAP TIME WON'T BE AS GOOD
SO AFRAID THAT IF THEY MISS A SHIFT THEY WILL DAMAGE THE CAR
SO AFRAID THAT THEIR WIFE CAN'T TAKE IT TO WORK

DUE TO THEIR LACK OF SKILL .... that they buy an AUTOMATIC - oooops.. " DCT" .
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      11-22-2017, 08:39 PM   #27
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I'm all for electrification. There are obvious advantages and battery technology is and will continue to accelerate. What might be a heavy 100 kWh battery now will be much more efficient/lighter in the not so distant future. I only worry about the loss of the manual in the process.
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      11-22-2017, 08:54 PM   #28
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BMW won't be the first to do this. Porsche's highest end Panamera (Turbo S) is a plug-in hybrid, and by all accounts a decent drive along with performance numbers that look to exceed the F90 M5's.
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      11-22-2017, 08:55 PM   #29
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This news ties right in with BMW cancelling plans with McLaren I am sure.

I would love to see an NSX type of vehicle from bmw
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      11-22-2017, 10:00 PM   #30
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Let me translate " With all the State subsidies we're forced to bring EV technology to the M-brand. Don't worry, we're going to make it sound really cool and it'll perform but you'll never actually own these cars. Why? Well we're planning on offering a majority of our products via ride sharing programs. See, we've raised our prices so much over the years that we can't continue to sell/lease in ever increasing numbers of vehicles but we can rent them. Oh... and before I finish, because ride sharing is going to be so popular among the younger crowd, we're going to have to make our vehicles more vanilla. That way people can just get in and go. "
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      11-22-2017, 10:16 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amgeater2 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eau_Rouge111 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amgeater2 View Post
yes it's time 4wd and electric motors to assist all the power.. key word assist !!
But at the cost of the car being not only heavier than an M shoukd be as they are already too heavy and turning them into fat pigs
How do you know this ? at this point its to early ao you are just speculating what the future may hold...
Batteries are heavy...unless BMW figured out something no one else has in terms of battery technology that no one else has...or is making more of the car from carbon (doubt it due to cars needing to compete at certain market driven price points) then clearly the car will be heavier and modern non hybrid BMWs are not exactly light weight cars
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      11-22-2017, 10:20 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SakhirM4 View Post
Based on all your posts, why do you even come to the BMW forums???
Oh brother. Did my post offend you?

Every generation of m cars has been pretty different in terms of powertrain. People have been bitching forever but shut up after the numbers come out.

Last edited by kprocivic; 11-22-2017 at 10:26 PM.
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      11-22-2017, 10:22 PM   #33
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If this is the way of the future fine. But they would have Big balls and it would be gangster if they produced limited production "old school" technology for the specialty enthusiast. Even if they charge crazy money for it and they did it "just cause they can"....
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      11-22-2017, 10:34 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eau_Rouge111 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amgeater2 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eau_Rouge111 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amgeater2 View Post
yes it's time 4wd and electric motors to assist all the power.. key word assist !!
But at the cost of the car being not only heavier than an M shoukd be as they are already too heavy and turning them into fat pigs
How do you know this ? at this point its to early ao you are just speculating what the future may hold...
Batteries are heavy...unless BMW figured out something no one else has in terms of battery technology that no one else has...or is making more of the car from carbon (doubt it due to cars needing to compete at certain market driven price points) then clearly the car will be heavier and modern non hybrid BMWs are not exactly light weight cars
well let's take the most recent car that tesla just announce for argument sake... (the Roadster) the car broke "Several standards" in the automotive industry but I am not going to go there as I am not a fan of Tesla and its not the point that I am trying to make here, but my point with the car is that you mention "batteries are heavy" that car weights less than the M2 : M2 weights 3450lb < Roaster 2760lb almost 700lb less.. so creating a hybrid and keeping the weight down is possible..
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      11-22-2017, 10:47 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kprocivic View Post
Oh brother. Did my post offend you?

Every generation of m cars has been pretty different in terms of powertrain. People have been bitching forever but shut up after the numbers come out.
Didn't offend me at all. I was just curious why you even come to this forum when all your posts are so negative.

I don't even know how to interpret the bolded part. What does that mean? They bitch until they see the truth?
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      11-22-2017, 10:55 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amgeater2 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eau_Rouge111 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amgeater2 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eau_Rouge111 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amgeater2 View Post
yes it's time 4wd and electric motors to assist all the power.. key word assist !!
But at the cost of the car being not only heavier than an M shoukd be as they are already too heavy and turning them into fat pigs
How do you know this ? at this point its to early ao you are just speculating what the future may hold...
Batteries are heavy...unless BMW figured out something no one else has in terms of battery technology that no one else has...or is making more of the car from carbon (doubt it due to cars needing to compete at certain market driven price points) then clearly the car will be heavier and modern non hybrid BMWs are not exactly light weight cars
well let's take the most recent car that tesla just announce for argument sake... (the Roadster) the car broke "Several standards" in the automotive industry but I am not going to go there as I am not a fan of Tesla and its not the point that I am trying to make here, but my point with the car is that you mention "batteries are heavy" that car weights less than the M2 : M2 weights 3450lb < Roaster 2760lb almost 700lb less.. so creating a hybrid and keeping the weight down is possible..
Musk says allot of stuff...i suspect when Tesla actually becomes profitable (if it ever does) he will be more honest
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      11-22-2017, 11:42 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SakhirM4 View Post
Didn't offend me at all. I was just curious why you even come to this forum when all your posts are so negative.

I don't even know how to interpret the bolded part. What does that mean? They bitch until they see the truth?
I'm a very positive person that's kinda weird to hear someone say that. I am not a bmw dick rider though. I love bmw and have owned 2 m3s and a 135. With that said bmw isn't God's gift to cars anymore. There are a few cars that check all the boxes that the m4 does and are cheaper. The m2 is excellent though, but it's not the flagship.

In regards to my original post it's very very simple. I started driving legally in 2003. The e36 to e46 jump wasn't to different in regards to drivetrain but it was a better platform. When the e92 came out, people bitched about bmw switching to a v8 and it wasn't traditional. When the f80 dropped with a few turbos, people bitched even more so than before. Cars evolve and things change, but I welcome the technology. Maybe it will help bmw get back to the top. The previous 3 m cars are pretty good, and have gradually gotten better, but they are not the best in segment and price no longer justifies.
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      11-23-2017, 12:09 AM   #38
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I didn't realize Tom Cruise signed on for that many films.
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      11-23-2017, 12:58 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kprocivic View Post
I'm a very positive person that's kinda weird to hear someone say that. I am not a bmw dick rider though. I love bmw and have owned 2 m3s and a 135. With that said bmw isn't God's gift to cars anymore. There are a few cars that check all the boxes that the m4 does and are cheaper. The m2 is excellent though, but it's not the flagship.
Which cars, exactly, accomplish this feat?
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      11-23-2017, 01:10 AM   #40
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If you want BMW to remain competitive you better be ready to embrace this stuff.... It'll be very tough to keep up otherwise and what would you do if AMG adopted first and started smoking M cars in straight line and on track?

I say bring it on. M to me has no tradition other than trying to embrace cutting edge tech to create cars that are a blast to drive.
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      11-23-2017, 01:42 AM   #41
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Torque-Fill via eMotors will be a welcome addition.

I will take a plug-in M2 CSL thank you very much!
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      11-23-2017, 01:44 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BwoodBMW View Post
If you want BMW to remain competitive you better be ready to embrace this stuff.... It'll be very tough to keep up otherwise and what would you do if AMG adopted first and started smoking M cars in straight line and on track?

I say bring it on. M to me has no tradition other than trying to embrace cutting edge tech to create cars that are a blast to drive.
AMG is going to bring it big-time !!
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      11-23-2017, 01:46 AM   #43
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The World Is Flat!

Compared to the existing hybrid and electric tech, ICE engines seem to be the only choice for those who enjoy driving. The reality is though, we are forced to look at other tech not in the name of progress but to progress for our survival.

I really think we should have an open mind as to commitment of the car industry to retain the driver experience we so relish in their future developments.

I for one feel that somethings will be lost but others will be gained that will keep us interested.
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      11-23-2017, 01:47 AM   #44
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X3/4M introduction?
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