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      12-29-2017, 08:14 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Germanauto View Post
The E60 certainly looks too bulbous and aside from the pre-LCI E65, I'd say it was the only questionable design from Bangle.

With that being said, the E60 remains "modern" even today both inside and out. It's a car BMW could put in showrooms tomorrow and it wouldn't look that dated.

The E39 on the other hand? It clearly harkens back to a different era. It's a beautiful and timeless design, yet does not look "modern" in the way the E60 does, especially from inside. Those pre-Bangle BMWs had absolutely atrocious interior material quality.
I certainly agree the e60 M5 looks "newer".

But, interior? Really? I'd say the e60 has BMW's second worst interior ever (the worst being the e36). The e39 on the other hand, especially in M5 guise, is pretty outstanding. Purposeful, driver orientated, high quality materials, easy to use quickly, no fluff. The e60's is ugly, not driver oriented, requires digging through menus for functionality that used to be quickly accessed via buttons, has less useful gauges, and you're saddled with iDrive in the center stack. In terms of materials, the e39 M5 came with alcantara headliner/pillars as standard whereas it was an optional upsell on the e60. Despite the e60 being a significantly larger exterior size, in M guise (with M5 seats, which are stupidly thick on the e60) the e39 has significantly more passenger space (even more so with the euro dash). Mostly, though, the e60 interior is just goofy/shitty looking, imo.









Or, by quality, do you mean longevity? If so, I think you're basing your statement on neglected/abused cars. With a basic level of car (cleaning once a year, not smoking in the car, not rubbing rings on trim pieces), they're pretty bomb proof. E.g. My best friends M5 and my M5, both closer to 200,000 miles than 100,000 miles. Original parts, cleaned occasionally. Nothing replaced, the cars just aren't abused.

His:



Mine:

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Last edited by Obioban; 12-29-2017 at 08:19 AM.
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      12-29-2017, 05:22 PM   #24
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^My point is that I can't imagine those E39 or E46 interiors in a BMW showroom today, whereas an E60 could still hold it's own. The buttons, switchgear, materials, leather, iDrive, etc. are all more similar to today's cars than the E39's.
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      12-29-2017, 06:43 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Germanauto View Post
^My point is that I can't imagine those E39 or E46 interiors in a BMW showroom today, whereas an E60 could still hold it's own. The buttons, switchgear, materials, leather, iDrive, etc. are all more similar to today's cars than the E39's.
I’m not sure that was clearly conveyed by, “Those pre-Bangle BMWs had absolutely atrocious interior material quality.”

I don’t know that I agree with that statement either, though.

F10 went back to 4 gauges, lost the idrive hunp, made the center stack driver oriented again, added buttons back for functions instead of making you dig through menus, and went back to not feeling like shitty materials inside/looking like it’s made by fisher price...





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      12-29-2017, 10:04 PM   #26
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^LOL the E39 definitely looks 20 yrs old from inside.
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      12-29-2017, 10:48 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Obioban View Post
I'd say the e60 has BMW's second worst interior ever (the worst being the e36). The e39 on the other hand, especially in M5 guise, is pretty outstanding. Purposeful, driver orientated, high quality materials, easy to use quickly, no fluff. The e60's is ugly, not driver oriented, requires digging through menus for functionality that used to be quickly accessed via buttons, has less useful gauges, and you're saddled with iDrive in the center stack.
Aptly put. Couldn't agree more. A comparison of E39 and E60 design, both inside and out, is an exercise in head-scratchology. The former looks graceful and understated, EXACTLY what an M5 always has been, while the latter is cartoonish and carries an aura of pre-pubescent shenanigans. It is as though the entire E39 design team quit in protest when the E60 vision was laid out by the brass. And the latter eventually visited each one at home with their tails between their legs, apologized profusely, and re-hired them in time for the F10 design.

If one were to park all generations of the M5 in the correct sequence of release, it is easy to spot the odd one out, especially when front/back/sides/interior are all compared. Just see below.

Timeless design evolves while staying true to its genealogy. There must always be logical progression from one generation to the next. The E60 stayed true to a genealogy, I just can't imagine which one though, hence the head-scratchology issue...
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      12-31-2017, 06:21 PM   #28
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One thing I liked about my old E39 M5 is there were zero blank buttons. You don't see that anymore.

Come to think of it, my S2000 also had no blanks, although that was because there were no real trim levels or options.
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      02-03-2018, 01:28 PM   #29
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The e60 was innovative and still a driver's car, especially in M5 form. However, what fazed many including me was the break in styling evolution, inside and out. That was a great shame they broke a gradual progression that had been happening since the 1962 1500. Also subjective, I think a V8 sounds better than a V10. Although true in a straight line the E60 M5 was 0-60 mph in 4.5 seconds and the e39 M5 couldn't break 5 seconds. That said, to drive the e39 was less digital and more fun imo.

This video from 55 sec onwards has some nice sounds. To my ear the engine has a natural V8 sound reminiscent of a L82 Vette 350.

e39 sounds
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      02-03-2018, 01:38 PM   #30
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As much as I enjoyed my e34 3.6 M5 in the nineties I couldn't live with the dated interior nowadays. That said for me my hand built e34 was the best M5, the current batch of M cars are adorned with too many scoops, ducts, spoilers & other tasteless trinkets
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      02-03-2018, 04:47 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 8bit View Post
The e60 was innovative and still a driver's car, especially in M5 form. However, what fazed many including me was the break in styling evolution, inside and out. That was a great shame they broke a gradual progression that had been happening since the 1962 1500. Also subjective, I think a V8 sounds better than a V10. Although true in a straight line the E60 M5 was 0-60 mph in 4.5 seconds and the e39 M5 couldn't break 5 seconds. That said, to drive the e39 was less digital and more fun imo.

This video from 55 sec onwards has some nice sounds. To my ear the engine has a natural V8 sound reminiscent of a L82 Vette 350.

e39 sounds
Most tests had the e39 in the mid 4s— e.g. car and driver got 0-60 in 4.6 out of it.... and that was never being able to got WOT in first because of shitty contemporary tire technology. I doubt you can find a single professional test of the e39 M5 where they didn't clock its 0-60 somewhere in the 4s.

Not that I think 0-60 is a particularly meaningful statistic to how enjoyable a car is-- I just dislike misinformation.

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      02-03-2018, 04:52 PM   #32
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Sweet e39 M5 road trip feature: range
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Last edited by Obioban; 02-05-2018 at 08:04 AM.
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      02-04-2018, 04:11 PM   #33
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Eh i prefer E60.. E39 wasnt that faster than E46 M3.. but E60 is still a rocket..
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      02-05-2018, 08:14 AM   #34
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Eh i prefer E60.. E39 wasnt that faster than E46 M3.. but E60 is still a rocket..
The e46 M3 and e39 M5 are interesting in how different they are. Other generations of the pair (e60/e9X, e36/e34, etc) they're fairly similar. Currently they're both turbo automatic poor steering feel boredom. Last gen both high revving similar engine designs.

In the e46/e39 era, there were dramatically different cars. The e46 is probably the most hardcore M3 (e.g. highest specific output NA engine, highest piston speeds, harshest riding, most drivetrain noise that makes it to the cabin) whereas the e39 M5 is almost an AMG (but you get a manual trans). Far more torque, civility, and comfort focused than the e28, e34, or e60 (which I consider the last M5). And the lowest specific output of any NA M engine (outside of the S52, if you consider that an M engine).

Imho, the result is the two make a great pair of cars to own-- they complement eachother by being great at the things the other is not.... whereas all the other generations of M3/M5 are kind of small/large versions of the same car.

The other result, in my opinion, is that the e39 is the worst weekend M5, but the best DD/road trip M5. If that makes it the best or worst M5 depends on what you want an M5 to be. For me, I want a small/nimble car for weekend use (so not any generation M5), so I want an M5 that excels at DDing... which makes the e39 M5 the best M5 for my wants.
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      02-05-2018, 11:14 AM   #35
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E60 is the GOAT
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      03-01-2018, 11:31 AM   #36
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Wow seeing these interior pics side by side, the E39 is by far the nicest.
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      03-02-2018, 05:21 AM   #37
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i7 the best))
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      03-02-2018, 08:15 AM   #38
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I want an E39 so bad as a daily. I'm hoping I can find one for a decent price in Germany with reasonable miles.
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      03-03-2018, 11:09 AM   #39
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I would absolutely take a Chevy SS with the 6MT but dealers in my area were absolute pricks about them so I never wound up with one.
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      03-03-2018, 11:57 AM   #40
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doug did a pretty good vid. i like his reviews.
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