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      07-05-2018, 09:37 AM   #1
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U.S. Reportedly Tells German Automakers Tariff Threat May Be Abandoned

Via Automotive News:

July 5, 2018

BERLIN -- The U.S. ambassador to Germany told German automakers that President Donald Trump could abandon threats to impose tariffs on cars imported from the European Union in exchange for concessions, an industry source said on Thursday.

German daily Handelsblatt reported Ambassador Richard Grenell told executives from Daimler, Volkswagen and BMW on Wednesday that Trump would suspend tariff threats if the EU annulled duties on U.S. cars imported into the bloc.

Trump threatened last month to impose a 20-percent import tariff on all EU-assembled vehicles, which could upend the industry's current business model for selling cars in the United States.

German automotive trade body VDA said on Thursday it had repeatedly called for free and fair trade in talks with Ambassador Grenell.

"But it is clear that the negotiations are exclusively being held at a political level," it said in a statement.

It said suggestions about mutually removing tariffs and other trade barriers were positive signals.

Trump's protectionist trade policies, which also target Chinese imports, have raised fears of a full-blown and protracted trade war that threatens to damage the world economy. Read the full report at http://www.autonews.com/article/2018...andoned-report
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      07-05-2018, 10:13 AM   #2
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Today. But tomorrow.. that's a different story. And next week... well we have no clue.
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      07-05-2018, 10:25 AM   #3
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It's a simple concept. We don't have free and fair trade now. High tariffs on US exports will lead to reciprocally high tariffs on like imports until such time as they reduce or remove those tariffs and the US then reciprocates. Then we have free trade. It's about time!
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      07-05-2018, 10:26 AM   #4
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Aaaaand the Supreme leader just changed his mind, and again...
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      07-05-2018, 10:32 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by VCP View Post
Aaaaand the Supreme leader just changed his mind, and again...
I think that's shortsighted thinking.

This "tariff war" is another example of the "Art of The Deal".

Politics is a like a game of poker & a game of chess played on a massive scale.

In that regard, he is no different than any other politician.

Despite the constant banter of "he's an idiot", he sure does seem to be effective.

But that's just my opinion.
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      07-05-2018, 10:34 AM   #6
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      07-05-2018, 10:35 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lab_rat View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by VCP View Post
Aaaaand the Supreme leader just changed his mind, and again...
No, that's incorrect thinking. This tariff war" is another example of the "Art of The Deal".

Politics is a like a game of poker & a game of chess played on a massive scale.

In that regard, he is no different than any other politician.

Despite the constant banter of "he's an idiot", he sure does seem to be effective.

But that's just my opinion.
Ok. It is his way or the highway. Is that real democracy? It was a simple statement of his continual flip flopping. Say one thing, do another. But I understand what you are saying.
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      07-05-2018, 10:37 AM   #8
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Exactly as I predicted.

Anybody who has followed the Donald's career even remotely knows he trolls and plays hardball for the purpose of negotiation. He threatens the worst-case scenario until the other side comes to the table.
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      07-05-2018, 10:37 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
Today. But tomorrow.. that's a different story. And next week... well we have no clue.
Nixon madman theory. Trump's so good at it that I have a hard time deciding whether it's a conscious effort or not.
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      07-05-2018, 10:38 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BD SM3RF View Post
It's a simple concept. We don't have free and fair trade now. High tariffs on US exports will lead to reciprocally high tariffs on like imports until such time as they reduce or remove those tariffs and the US then reciprocates. Then we have free trade. It's about time!

That is exactly right.

I happen to had first hand experience with this. I made some aftermarket parts that I ended up selling (via German BMW forum) in Europe, when I found out I had to lower my prices (to stay competitive), because German customers had to pay ~23% EU import tax. And let me tell you all, customs are real Nazis about it. You can't just send as gift or put a lower value on it to avoid those taxes, they open the packages up, inspect, and in some cases even confiscated them. DOES THAT SOUND LIKE FREE TRADE? Who the hell negotiated these deals? This is just one example of how the US is getting shafted and it is about time someone does something about it.

Of course the media, and all the sheeple, will make Trump the bad guy, when in fact he is trying to fix previous administrations foul ups and sell outs.

Rant over.
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      07-05-2018, 10:40 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lab_rat View Post
I think that's shortsighted thinking.

This "tariff war" is another example of the "Art of The Deal".

Politics is a like a game of poker & a game of chess played on a massive scale.

In that regard, he is no different than any other politician.

Despite the constant banter of "he's an idiot", he sure does seem to be effective.

But that's just my opinion.
Yup it's all calculated. I've read that book and there's no denying that's his strategy. He's also a big believer in taking risks and "thinking big." You win some and you lose some with this approach, but you never stay in the shadows.
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      07-05-2018, 10:41 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Germanauto View Post
Exactly as I predicted.

Anybody who has followed the Donald's career even remotely knows he trolls and plays hardball for the purpose of negotiation. He threatens the worst-case scenario until the other side comes to the table.
Exactly correct.

He is a highly effective negotiator, and in this game of chess, he is usually three moves ahead.
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      07-05-2018, 10:42 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lab_rat View Post
I think that's shortsighted thinking.

This "tariff war" is another example of the "Art of The Deal".

Politics is a like a game of poker & a game of chess played on a massive scale.

In that regard, he is no different than any other politician.

Despite the constant banter of "he's an idiot", he sure does seem to be effective.

But that's just my opinion.
Effective at what exactly?

Most of what he has done is reverse exec orders that Obama put in place. I don't agree with everything Obama did, but he is reversing everything just to spite him.

aka reversing Dodd-Frank for example. Who is in their right mind would kill that?

My blood boils with the current political BS going on.
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      07-05-2018, 10:43 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisK View Post
Effective at what exactly?

Most of what he has done is reverse exec orders that Obama put in place. I don't agree with everything Obama did, but he is reversing everything just to spite him.

aka reversing Dodd-Frank for example. Who is in their right mind would kill that?

My blood boils with the current political BS going on.
Yeah he is very spiteful, always gotta have the last word...
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      07-05-2018, 10:46 AM   #15
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He's a businessman which is why he's running this country like a businessman and not a politician.
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      07-05-2018, 10:49 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BD SM3RF View Post
It's a simple concept. We don't have free and fair trade now. High tariffs on US exports will lead to reciprocally high tariffs on like imports until such time as they reduce or remove those tariffs and the US then reciprocates. Then we have free trade. It's about time!
It's true that there is an imbalance here, the US imposes a 2.5% tariff on cars coming from the EU while there is a 10% tariff the other way. The question should be whether getting the EU to lower this rate would make a difference in sales of American cars in Europe.

This is highly doubtful that it would make much of an impact. With fuel prices much higher in the EU, smaller cars / engines are what sell. American car makers are moving to all but abandon selling cars at all, moving towards SUVs and trucks with larger engines and lower fuel economy. There is a niche market for things like the Mustang, but for folks that really want one and can afford a gas guzzling V8 muscle car, the extra 7.5% doesn't really matter one way or another to them.

So while technically yes there is a tariff imbalance here, and it FEELS like hey we should do something about it, the reality of it is that even if expending all this political capital and good will with our closest allies gets the concessions asked for, it won't really do much or anything to help American car manufacturers. The real proof here is that THEY aren't asking for it, in fact they are asking for them to STOP trying. If there was any way that this approach was likely to benefit US automobile manufacturers, don't you think they would be lobbying FOR it rather than against? They have done the analysis and believe it will be ultimately harmful to them, which begs the question - why are we taking this approach?
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      07-05-2018, 10:49 AM   #17
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Its called Negotiating
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      07-05-2018, 10:56 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisK View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by lab_rat View Post
I think that's shortsighted thinking.

This "tariff war" is another example of the "Art of The Deal".

Politics is a like a game of poker & a game of chess played on a massive scale.

In that regard, he is no different than any other politician.

Despite the constant banter of "he's an idiot", he sure does seem to be effective.

But that's just my opinion.
Effective at what exactly?

Most of what he has done is reverse exec orders that Obama put in place. I don't agree with everything Obama did, but he is reversing everything just to spite him.

aka reversing Dodd-Frank for example. Who is in their right mind would kill that?

My blood boils with the current political BS going on.
To be fair, the 'political BS' is slung quite hard from both sides of the aisle...but it's our choice to look past the BS and see what is truth and what isn't.

I'm glad our government is now pushing for a true free trade, instead of towing the line or trying to make all other governments happy.

Time will tell, but I am hedging my bets that Trump will reduce/remove many current EU tariffs.

Call me optimistic.
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      07-05-2018, 10:57 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BD SM3RF View Post
It's a simple concept. We don't have free and fair trade now. High tariffs on US exports will lead to reciprocally high tariffs on like imports until such time as they reduce or remove those tariffs and the US then reciprocates. Then we have free trade. It's about time!
Free isn't necessarily good, nor is equal. Fair is appropriate on whole vehicles and has been under negotiation since 1998. Until the US regulatory hurdles are addressed (Federalization and no Mutual Recognition of the standards used by every other country), removal of the tariffs completely isn't going to have the desired effect.

Quote:
Originally Posted by norMcal View Post
That is exactly right.

I happen to had first hand experience with this. I made some aftermarket parts that I ended up selling (via German BMW forum) in Europe, when I found out I had to lower my prices (to stay competitive), because German customers had to pay ~23% EU import tax. And let me tell you all, customs are real Nazis about it. You can't just send as gift or put a lower value on it to avoid those taxes, they open the packages up, inspect, and in some cases even confiscated them. DOES THAT SOUND LIKE FREE TRADE? Who the hell negotiated these deals? This is just one example of how the US is getting shafted and it is about time someone does something about it.

Of course the media, and all the sheeple, will make Trump the bad guy, when in fact he is trying to fix previous administrations foul ups and sell outs.

Rant over.
No. Your customers paid 4% Import Duty. The remaining 19% would be VAT (Sales Tax).
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      07-05-2018, 11:00 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lab_rat View Post
To be fair, the 'political BS' is slung quite hard from both sides of the aisle...but it's our choice to look past the BS and see what is truth and what isn't.

I'm glad our government is now pushing for a true free trade, instead of towing the line or trying to make all other governments happy.

Time will tell, but I am hedging my bets that Trump will reduce/remove many correct EU tariffs.

Call me optimistic.
You got that right. Their no innocents in this mess. Both sides of the aisle have screwed this up.

I have my fingers crossed, but in the back of my mind I see the US isolated.
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      07-05-2018, 11:00 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Germanauto View Post
Yup it's all calculated. I've read that book and there's no denying that's his strategy. He's also a big believer in taking risks and "thinking big." You win some and you lose some with this approach, but you never stay in the shadows.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda View Post
Its called Negotiating

This.

He knew what he was proposing was going to shake Europe, and based on how they perceive him (thick skinned thick headed idiot...which he is not), they will basically dance to his tune.
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      07-05-2018, 11:05 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inablur View Post
This.

He knew what he was proposing was going to shake Europe, and based on how they perceive him (thick skinned thick headed idiot...which he is not), they will basically dance to his tune.
Only problem.... The US isn't the only big dog in the world economy anymore. China has weight in this equation, and if the chief blinks - he may find the rest of the world giving us the bird.
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