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      11-06-2018, 10:39 AM   #1
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Politics section safe space

Hi moderators,

Not sure this is the right place to pose this question, feel free to delete it if inappropriate.

I've seen a couple of threads be locked without an apparent reason, and would like to ask if the concept of a "safe space" for respectful political discussion has been discussed among the forum administration.

Meaning, politics and religion are topics of great contention, nobody will agree 100% with anyone here. That's the point.
So long as people are being respectful, why does a thread need to be locked? Can't we just warn people that create disrespectful posts so that we know when we've crossed a line, and give us a chance to re-write them, or delete these posts, instead of locking the whole thread?

I reckon some forum members apparently report a post that's "offensive" to them (because they disagree with it) and the whole thread gets locked... that's disappointing.

Basically asking if this has been discussed, so we can have a place to discuss even when the topics are controversial (natural of politics and religion) and to see what everyone thinks.

Cheers!
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      11-06-2018, 10:46 AM   #2
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Good question.
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      11-06-2018, 10:50 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OnerDriver View Post
Hi moderators,

Not sure this is the right place to pose this question, feel free to delete it if inappropriate.

I've seen a couple of threads be locked without an apparent reason, and would like to ask if the concept of a "safe space" for respectful political discussion has been discussed among the forum administration.

Meaning, politics and religion are topics of great contention, nobody will agree 100% with anyone here. That's the point.
So long as people are being respectful, why does a thread need to be locked? Can't we just warn people that create disrespectful posts so that we know when we've crossed a line, and give us a chance to re-write them, or delete these posts, instead of locking the whole thread?

I reckon some forum members apparently report a post that's "offensive" to them (because they disagree with it) and the whole thread gets locked... that's disappointing.

Basically asking if this has been discussed, so we can have a place to discuss even when the topics are controversial (natural of politics and religion) and to see what everyone thinks.

Cheers!
I agree with you on this. It would be nice to see a debate resolve itself without having to lock the thread completely. As you say an initial warning might be the way to keep those who can't be civil in cheque.
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      11-06-2018, 10:51 AM   #4
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Am I missing something? What threads were locked other than the socialism one which was locked for very obvious reasons.
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      11-06-2018, 10:56 AM   #5
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They actually prefer that we do our own policing, on the pretense that we are all adults here. Unfortunately, some can take more heat, if you would, while others cannot, and report this to the moderators. Personally, when things get too tense, I prefer to step back and take a break. I hate arguing, and more so with strangers. Perhaps if more people stepped back, these threads wouldn't get as heated, but the mentality becomes a pissing contest, with neither side convincing the other, while both dig in.
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      11-06-2018, 11:33 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OnerDriver View Post
Hi moderators,

Not sure this is the right place to pose this question, feel free to delete it if inappropriate.

I've seen a couple of threads be locked without an apparent reason, and would like to ask if the concept of a "safe space" for respectful political discussion has been discussed among the forum administration.

Meaning, politics and religion are topics of great contention, nobody will agree 100% with anyone here. That's the point.
So long as people are being respectful, why does a thread need to be locked? Can't we just warn people that create disrespectful posts so that we know when we've crossed a line, and give us a chance to re-write them, or delete these posts, instead of locking the whole thread?

I reckon some forum members apparently report a post that's "offensive" to them (because they disagree with it) and the whole thread gets locked... that's disappointing.

Basically asking if this has been discussed, so we can have a place to discuss even when the topics are controversial (natural of politics and religion) and to see what everyone thinks.

Cheers!
Quote:
Originally Posted by are0lies View Post
They actually prefer that we do our own policing, on the pretense that we are all adults here. Unfortunately, some can take more heat, if you would, while others cannot, and report this to the moderators. Personally, when things get too tense, I prefer to step back and take a break. I hate arguing, and more so with strangers. Perhaps if more people stepped back, these threads wouldn't get as heated, but the mentality becomes a pissing contest, with neither side convincing the other, while both dig in.
are0lies basically answered it in my opinion. The problem is, some people can't let go. So when they get offended, they throw it right back and continue to do so. If the thread isn't locked, they'll continue their behaviour (both sides). And while I'm a super fan of taking threads off tangent and do it quite well I think, what happens is the thread just becomes basically a pissing contest and loses complete focus on the original topic and becomes useless anyways.

I do support warnings as an initial step, and it is my understanding the mods do send these out, simply because I've seen other members complain about getting an infraction notice. So I think this is already taking place.

The mods job is hard I think, and the drain on their time trying to peruse threads to keep people civil (all for no monetary compensation I believe) is significant. So sometimes it is just easier to close the thread.

Depending on how easy it is to ban a member temporarily, I would honestly support that more than closing down the thread. If that takes approximately the same amount of effort, that would be something I would suggest. If two (or four, or whatever) members are obviously going at it, and getting completely disrespectful, then a nice 48 hour / 72 hour ban for all of them just to cool down would probably do the trick.

The thread would then move on, the ban isn't long enough to make the banned people create a new account, and by the time they come back on, they've hopefully cooled down enough that they don't continue. So a brief temporary ban would be my suggestion - something reasonably short. This I'd suggest in terms of infraction notices when they've clearly violated the rules. If it isn't as clear, then you use the infraction notice in lieu of ban to make sure they are aware.
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      11-06-2018, 12:17 PM   #7
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      11-06-2018, 01:20 PM   #8
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Hey everyone,

I'll try my best to explain this in a way that makes sense.

For starters, obviously, the moderator team consists of more than one person, each with a slightly different style and tolerance for certain behaviors.
Remember that administrators also perform moderator duties from time to time.

Essentially, are0lies and Joekerr are on the right track here.
Us moderators prefer to let the threads and conversations ride their course, but will step in when things get out of hand.
I do particularly agree with the statement that the moderators are under the premise that we are all mature adults here.
But when people start to act like little children, then that only creates a situation that's going to descend into chaos.
This has little to do with being politically correct or building safe spaces and everything to due with fostering mature and constructive discourse that doesn't go against the forum rules.

Technically, yes, one could argue that some of the forum rules do act as a safeguard of sorts against elements such as racism and other forms of derogatory and inappropriate language.
The rules against this kind of language has been set in stone on BIMMERPOST since day one and I'd argue that they exist for good reason.
Those who genuinely feel contempt for these rules and see them as impediments to good, mature, intellectual discussion are probably on the wrong board.
Remember, this is a BMW Forum, with an off-topic (i.e., politics) section.
Again, a forum community as large as BIMMERPOST (with over 300,000 registered members) is inevitably comprised of individuals from all walks of life, backgrounds, experiences, etc.
The rules against inappropriate language/behavior is more about common decency & respect than it is about being PC.
Naturally, the psychology behind sitting behind a screen on the internet semi-anonymously and arguing with someone one disagrees with is going to enable all sorts of brave language that he wouldn't even say to someone to their face.
The rules help to curtail troublemakers and instigating/trolling behavior while also allowing for diversity in opinion.

With that being said, my personal style as some of you may already know is to try to build an understanding with the members.
I've often interrupted discussions here to give public warnings (in the form of a post instead of through the warnings/infractions system) as my token of transparency to everyone.
In such cases, I understand that there is no inherent ill-intent to the discussion, just that it got heated/emotional. By stepping in and interrupting briefly with a PSA of sorts, I hope, in those cases, to steer conversation back to the right track.
Of course, in some cases, moderators including myself will have to resort to the aforementioned warnings/infractions system instead for more blatant/direct violations/offenses.
These are dealt with on a case-by-case basis, as every scenario is slightly different.

And then, there's the "report this post" function.
Moderators cannot possibly see and scrutinize every single post that is made.
If a member sees a violative post, using the "report this post" function brings the attention of the said post to the moderation team.
Action is taken appropriately depending on the severity of the violation and moderators will use discretion depending on situation.
In some cases, there may be a reported post in a thread that is already on fire.
Deleting that one reported post will fix nothing, but deleting an entire page of discussion eliminates any continuity of discussion because the thread was already so consumed by the fire/heat.
In such instances, closing/deleting the thread is the more viable option.

Bans are the most severe form of disciplinary measure on any forum and here on BIMMERPOST, they are not handed out very liberally.
These are reserved only for severe or flagrant offenses or repeated violation (i.e., history of violation) of the rules.
Additionally, it would be really tough to earn a permanent ban, or a ban without warning, unless you are either a spambot, repeat offender, or an individual is full of contempt for others and the rules (i.e., a toxic, despicable individual).

usshelena725 used an analogy before that I also like to use.
Basically, you'd want to behave (carry yourself) in a way where the other person would want to have a beer with you, just like in real-life.
The internet should be no different.
Be respectful, play nice, act mature, and we won't have any issues.

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      11-06-2018, 01:59 PM   #9
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Thanks for your input Law.

BTW, where are those rules you spoke of? I don't think I've ever seen them.

Cheers
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      11-06-2018, 02:07 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OnerDriver View Post
Thanks for your input Law.

BTW, where are those rules you spoke of? I don't think I've ever seen them.

Cheers
"Forum Rules/Guidelines/Tips and Tricks! PLEASE READ BEFORE POSTING"
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      11-06-2018, 02:16 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Law View Post

usshelena725 used an analogy before that I also like to use.
Basically, you'd want to behave (carry yourself) in a way where the other person would want to have a beer with you, just like in real-life.
The internet should be no different.
Be respectful, play nice, act mature, and we won't have any issues.

I'm just re-posting this since I was mentioned in a comment by Law and as such, I now feel entitled to some sort of celebrity treatment or the like.
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      11-06-2018, 03:23 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Law View Post
"Forum Rules/Guidelines/Tips and Tricks! PLEASE READ BEFORE POSTING"
https://www.bimmerpost.com/forums/an...t.php?f=56&a=2
This is located at the top of every forum/subforum/section.

"BIMMERPOST Terms of Service"
https://www.bimmerpost.com/tos.php
These are the terms users agreed to upon registration of their account.
I gather that most of the members of this forum so I'm going to speculate that most don't actually read stuff like that, click agree and move on. Kind of like directions, instructions etc.....
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      11-06-2018, 03:28 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by usshelena725 View Post
I'm just re-posting this since I was mentioned in a comment by Law and as such, I now feel entitled to some sort of celebrity treatment or the like.
Celebrate!!
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      11-06-2018, 03:33 PM   #14
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Celebrate!!
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      11-06-2018, 03:35 PM   #15
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All the good cake memes seem to be too big * or gifs.

*that's what she said....
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