[johnung]

Originally Posted by ozymandias435

MST V2 will flow more air than Pure Inlet. Whether the Turbo can accept or handle the air is still to be know. But from an absolute air flow standpoint, MST V2 will flow more air.

Cool. Have you been able to calculate the differential? Is it 5% more than the PT pipe? 10%? 20%?

Do you have pretty solid maximum flow numbers for the Turbos themselves that fit in that stock housing? PT told me that EWG & PT Stage1 are pretty close to each other.

PWG
EWG
PT Stage1
PT Stage2

Not sure what other turbos may use the stock housing?

[$howtime456]

have a MST Inlet V2 without the adapter if anyone needs

[52172]

I'm gonna be installing the Vader piece onto my factory inlet pipe should look like factory for emissions test too.

[DJSF3014]

Originally Posted by $howtime456

have a MST Inlet V2 without the adapter if anyone needs

Where did you purchase from?

[n55david]

i hate that i started this post

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by Phantom10R

i hate that i started this post

You can unsub, and the notifications won’t show up.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

Yeah just to add to this i put the logs in virtual dyno to compare before MST to after MST, all else being equal. Ambient temps were even almost exactly the same. VD didnt really show any difference either. The only real quantitative difference was +1 lb/min MAF up top (like after 6000rpm), and perhaps slightly lower WGDC. The real gains seem to be more qualitative/seat of the pants, such as throttle response, and sound if you want to count that. This is consistent with what other people report with other inlets.

The final test will likely be the BMS since he has that on order. I am quite interested to see how it compares to the MST and get some actual measurements, since none are given on the website. Also, I think it was Amuro that originally linked these, but i recommend any interested in an inlet read through part 1, 2, and 3 of these tests. The Part 3 article was linked in the MST inlet thread, but even more interesting is part 2. It specifically compares a MST inlet and a BMS inlet (although for a different platform, several things are comparable). The MST uses a larger-than-stock silicone piece while the BMS uses the stock intake piece. And even more analogous to the BMW options, the BMS has a sudden neck down/change in diameter right at the turbo side. They even make a specific comment on this:

"The increase in airflow that was measured through the Burger Motorsport inlet elbow is substantial, and was surprising. Looking at the piece beforehand I had some concern about the transition at the outlet because it necks down slightly."

See picture there, then

"Clearly the concern was unfounded because the Burger part flows roughly 32% more air at the test point when compared with the stock inlet elbow. It was also a surprise to see the gains versus the two previously tested elbows from APR and Unitronic, both which have very smooth inner walls. Perhaps the larger cross section of the Burger part at the inlet and outlet contributes significantly to the airflow performance in this test."

Very interesting results. Thinking about it further, i think this is evidence that the MST hybrid turbo metal piece is better than the stock turbo one even for a stock turbo application since that neck down isnt a major concern. I think it also suggests that the BMS has the potential to flow quite good even attached to a stock intake.

The marginal gain of using the MST silicone hose over the accordion one (here referring to VW test) i think would be analogous to using the MST silicone part with MST bottom inlet piece vs. using the top stock inlet attached to MST bottom inlet piece. Its the exact same idea - MST is slightly bigger and doesnt have the accordion, and both are connected to stock intake setup.

http://mygolfmk7.com/2018/12/tip-ranking-round-1/

http://mygolfmk7.com/2019/01/tip-ranking-round-2/

http://mygolfmk7.com/2019/01/tip-ranking-round-3/

Although not directly related to the inlet, we also decided to test putting the full dinan intake back on connected to the MST inlet. The car never ran right with the dinan intake - had the erratic MAF readings, etc. Gave it a shot with the MST and the driveability was suppedly a lot worse (MAF adaptations were reset after install just to be safe). Even after driving around for a bit after the adaptations reset, heres the impressions:

"Ok threw Dinan on with the cone filter. Reset adaptations. Car idled horribly for first 10 seconds. Drove around easily with some medium bursts in there for about 7-8 minutes or so. Made my way out to my log spot and hit a log.

Impressions
Somehow my exhaust and turbo sounds wayyyyy louder with the Dinan on. Not sure why would make exhaust sound louder but it does. Bizarre.

Car felt laggy. Like wayyy laggy compared to MPPK+MST.
Car ran fine during the pull but didnt feel very fast.

Log from just now:
https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5ed17f2ac090c65530e92597"

If you look at that log, you will see that the MAF readings are way lower and very erratic compared with the logs with stock intake - we already thought that the dinan was messing with the MAF readings, but this was basically the final piece of evidence. I suspect its the non-OEM shape that just causes the MAF readings to be lower than they should be and combined with the cone filter makes some turbulence/erratic readings. I still put that log in virtual dyno for the sake of comparison.

It looks like the dinan log clearly deviates from the others after 5k rpm. I would ignore the big bump at 5392 because it looks like (from the log) that he hit a bump or something in the road. So realisitically if you were to draw the green curve from where it starts to deviate from the others at 5k rpm to where it ends, that would be the "real" dinan trace. So in other words, the dinan might net you +10-15 HP from 5000-7000 RPM.

From a practical perspective, i think this makes sense - the dinan definitely should flow better up top because its bigger, circular, and the filter has to flow better than the panel filter and stock intake tract. It would also be consistent with their claims (and those for intakes in general), that they should net you a peak HP number in the upper RPM range when the stock one finally becomes a bit of a choke point, but down low the stock is not really a restriction. As to why it felt laggier and slower, i think that is consistent with the general statement that "torque feels fast, but HP wins races". Its pretty much impossible to "feel" 10hp up top - but its very easy to feel better throttle response and the torque shove down low.

Having said that would i trade off the throttle response and overall better driveability with the stock intake + drop in filter + mppk bottom for the potentially +10 HP up top with the dinan? Hell no lol. Not only because i never want to rev out that high but you spend such a small fraction of your time up there its just not worth it for all the weird MAF behavior and everything else on top of the driveability sacrificies.

VD results below. Ignore the magnitude of the numbers because the vehicle weight, tire size, final drive, etc, are configured for my car - only look at the delta between the lines

Stock inlet / before MST - https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5ecd...0b4373874ee99a

MST inlet, all else equal - https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5ed0...0b434621ac4c6e

Both these are with stock intake and MPPK bottom, afe dry drop in.

Awesome! Thank you for doing this- I currently have dinan intake, M performance lower intake box, and a Evolve scoop. Good to know they may benefit some high rpm power.

I’ll try to get some logs here soon for the sake of comparison.

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by johnung

Cool. Have you been able to calculate the differential? Is it 5% more than the PT pipe? 10%? 20%?

Do you have pretty solid maximum flow numbers for the Turbos themselves that fit in that stock housing? PT told me that EWG & PT Stage1 are pretty close to each other.

PWG
EWG
PT Stage1
PT Stage2

Not sure what other turbos may use the stock housing?

Don't have flow numbers for the turbos themselves unfortunately.

We could calculate the difference in potential flow based on the ID of the various inlets at the point where they meet to the turbo, but I dont think that tells the whole story. For example see picture below where the actual turbo has a big "lip" where the ID of the airflow decreases significantly right at the compressor wheel entrace, regardless of which inlet you choose.

View post on imgur.com

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by 52172

I'm gonna be installing the Vader piece onto my factory inlet pipe should look like factory for emissions test too.

Please take measurements if the inner diameter and other relevant dimensions of the vader piece, and photos if possible. Thanks.

Originally Posted by DJSF3014

Where did you purchase from?

MST is available from Kies and from XPH i believe. Might be other vendors but MST themselves do not sell directly to USA.

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

Awesome! Thank you for doing this- I currently have dinan intake, M performance lower intake box, and a Evolve scoop. Good to know they may benefit some high rpm power.

I’ll try to get some logs here soon for the sake of comparison.

Very interested to see a log with Dinan intake. 2/2 people i have seen with logs with dinan intake BOTH have the erratic MAF readings and significantly lower MAF values than with stock intake, both suggesting the dinan shape/size/filter combo affect MAF readings. Would be very interesting to see if yours is the same. (This included using stock inlet and aftermarket - no impact). For Ozy, the car ran much better removing dinan and going back to stock intake with MPPK bottom.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

Please take measurements if the inner diameter and other relevant dimensions of the vader piece, and photos if possible. Thanks.



MST is available from Kies and from XPH i believe. Might be other vendors but MST themselves do not sell directly to USA.




Very interested to see a log with Dinan intake. 2/2 people i have seen with logs with dinan intake BOTH have the erratic MAF readings and significantly lower MAF values than with stock intake, both suggesting the dinan shape/size/filter combo affect MAF readings. Would be very interesting to see if yours is the same. (This included using stock inlet and aftermarket - no impact). For Ozy, the car ran much better removing dinan and going back to stock intake with MPPK bottom.

I’m sure I have some stock logs around here somewhere....

[DJSF3014]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

Please take measurements if the inner diameter and other relevant dimensions of the vader piece, and photos if possible. Thanks.

MST is available from Kies and from XPH i believe. Might be other vendors but MST themselves do not sell directly to USA.

Very interested to see a log with Dinan intake. 2/2 people i have seen with logs with dinan intake BOTH have the erratic MAF readings and significantly lower MAF values than with stock intake, both suggesting the dinan shape/size/filter combo affect MAF readings. Would be very interesting to see if yours is the same. (This included using stock inlet and aftermarket - no impact). For Ozy, the car ran much better removing dinan and going back to stock intake with MPPK bottom.

Is this version they sell the v2? It doesn't say anywhere that it is just curious.

[ozymandias435]

Originally Posted by DJSF3014

Is this version they sell the v2? It doesn't say anywhere that it is just curious.

I bought and installed the MST V2 into my stock EWG turbo

[DJSF3014]

Originally Posted by ozymandias435

I bought and installed the MST V2 into my stock EWG turbo

Where did you purchase from?

[ozymandias435]

Originally Posted by DJSF3014

Where did you purchase from?

Kies Motorsports!

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

Yeah just to add to this i put the logs in virtual dyno to compare before MST to after MST, all else being equal. Ambient temps were even almost exactly the same. VD didnt really show any difference either. The only real quantitative difference was +1 lb/min MAF up top (like after 6000rpm), and perhaps slightly lower WGDC. The real gains seem to be more qualitative/seat of the pants, such as throttle response, and sound if you want to count that. This is consistent with what other people report with other inlets.

The final test will likely be the BMS since he has that on order. I am quite interested to see how it compares to the MST and get some actual measurements, since none are given on the website. Also, I think it was Amuro that originally linked these, but i recommend any interested in an inlet read through part 1, 2, and 3 of these tests. The Part 3 article was linked in the MST inlet thread, but even more interesting is part 2. It specifically compares a MST inlet and a BMS inlet (although for a different platform, several things are comparable). The MST uses a larger-than-stock silicone piece while the BMS uses the stock intake piece. And even more analogous to the BMW options, the BMS has a sudden neck down/change in diameter right at the turbo side. They even make a specific comment on this:

"The increase in airflow that was measured through the Burger Motorsport inlet elbow is substantial, and was surprising. Looking at the piece beforehand I had some concern about the transition at the outlet because it necks down slightly."

See picture there, then

"Clearly the concern was unfounded because the Burger part flows roughly 32% more air at the test point when compared with the stock inlet elbow. It was also a surprise to see the gains versus the two previously tested elbows from APR and Unitronic, both which have very smooth inner walls. Perhaps the larger cross section of the Burger part at the inlet and outlet contributes significantly to the airflow performance in this test."

Very interesting results. Thinking about it further, i think this is evidence that the MST hybrid turbo metal piece is better than the stock turbo one even for a stock turbo application since that neck down isnt a major concern. I think it also suggests that the BMS has the potential to flow quite good even attached to a stock intake.

The marginal gain of using the MST silicone hose over the accordion one (here referring to VW test) i think would be analogous to using the MST silicone part with MST bottom inlet piece vs. using the top stock inlet attached to MST bottom inlet piece. Its the exact same idea - MST is slightly bigger and doesnt have the accordion, and both are connected to stock intake setup.

http://mygolfmk7.com/2018/12/tip-ranking-round-1/

http://mygolfmk7.com/2019/01/tip-ranking-round-2/

http://mygolfmk7.com/2019/01/tip-ranking-round-3/

Although not directly related to the inlet, we also decided to test putting the full dinan intake back on connected to the MST inlet. The car never ran right with the dinan intake - had the erratic MAF readings, etc. Gave it a shot with the MST and the driveability was suppedly a lot worse (MAF adaptations were reset after install just to be safe). Even after driving around for a bit after the adaptations reset, heres the impressions:

"Ok threw Dinan on with the cone filter. Reset adaptations. Car idled horribly for first 10 seconds. Drove around easily with some medium bursts in there for about 7-8 minutes or so. Made my way out to my log spot and hit a log.

Impressions
Somehow my exhaust and turbo sounds wayyyyy louder with the Dinan on. Not sure why would make exhaust sound louder but it does. Bizarre.

Car felt laggy. Like wayyy laggy compared to MPPK+MST.
Car ran fine during the pull but didnt feel very fast.

Log from just now:
https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5ed17f2ac090c65530e92597"

If you look at that log, you will see that the MAF readings are way lower and very erratic compared with the logs with stock intake - we already thought that the dinan was messing with the MAF readings, but this was basically the final piece of evidence. I suspect its the non-OEM shape that just causes the MAF readings to be lower than they should be and combined with the cone filter makes some turbulence/erratic readings. I still put that log in virtual dyno for the sake of comparison.

It looks like the dinan log clearly deviates from the others after 5k rpm. I would ignore the big bump at 5392 because it looks like (from the log) that he hit a bump or something in the road. So realisitically if you were to draw the green curve from where it starts to deviate from the others at 5k rpm to where it ends, that would be the "real" dinan trace. So in other words, the dinan might net you +10-15 HP from 5000-7000 RPM.

From a practical perspective, i think this makes sense - the dinan definitely should flow better up top because its bigger, circular, and the filter has to flow better than the panel filter and stock intake tract. It would also be consistent with their claims (and those for intakes in general), that they should net you a peak HP number in the upper RPM range when the stock one finally becomes a bit of a choke point, but down low the stock is not really a restriction. As to why it felt laggier and slower, i think that is consistent with the general statement that "torque feels fast, but HP wins races". Its pretty much impossible to "feel" 10hp up top - but its very easy to feel better throttle response and the torque shove down low.

Having said that would i trade off the throttle response and overall better driveability with the stock intake + drop in filter + mppk bottom for the potentially +10 HP up top with the dinan? Hell no lol. Not only because i never want to rev out that high but you spend such a small fraction of your time up there its just not worth it for all the weird MAF behavior and everything else on top of the driveability sacrificies.

VD results below. Ignore the magnitude of the numbers because the vehicle weight, tire size, final drive, etc, are configured for my car - only look at the delta between the lines

Stock inlet / before MST - https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5ecd...0b4373874ee99a

MST inlet, all else equal - https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5ed0...0b434621ac4c6e

Both these are with stock intake and MPPK bottom, afe dry drop in.

Hmm, what about an air straightener? Do you have the MAF readings on these to tell why it’s so erratic?

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

Hmm, what about an air straightener? Do you have the MAF readings on these to tell why it’s so erratic?

For the dinan you mean? I think the main problem is the shape and size of the intake where the MAF is located. Its a circle whereas the stock is more square, and the MAF reaches maybe half way across the diameter of the dinan whereas its most of the way across the stock intake. If you look at CTS turbo intake they specifically design the MAF section to mimic stock and explain why, and i think they are correct.

The MAF readings with dinan are here - https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5ed1...90c65530e92597

These actually arent TOO erratic, but you will see they peak at 37 or so whereas stock intake peaked at 45 (all else being equal), despite the dinan showing more power and almost certainly flowing more air up top. So the MAF is just not metering all the air with the dinan (due to factors i mentioned above). In addition to the erratic/low readings, this seems to make the car not idle or drive as well under normal driving conditions.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

For the dinan you mean? I think the main problem is the shape and size of the intake where the MAF is located. Its a circle whereas the stock is more square, and the MAF reaches maybe half way across the diameter of the dinan whereas its most of the way across the stock intake. If you look at CTS turbo intake they specifically design the MAF section to mimic stock and explain why, and i think they are correct.

The MAF readings with dinan are here - https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5ed1...90c65530e92597

These actually arent TOO erratic, but you will see they peak at 37 or so whereas stock intake peaked at 45 (all else being equal), despite the dinan showing more power and almost certainly flowing more air up top. So the MAF is just not metering all the air with the dinan (due to factors i mentioned above). In addition to the erratic/low readings, this seems to make the car not idle or drive as well under normal driving conditions.

I see....

[thejeremyman9]

Just bumping this thread incase anyone searches. The results of all the testing are pretty much summed up in the recent posts in the MST thread.

https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...2#post26317052

[thejeremyman9]

A week or so ago I installed the MST inlet and then did the MPPK airbox mod (one at a time, pics below). I think the benefits of the inlet were already summed up previously, but to echo and confirm for anyone on the fence, going from stock inlet to MST v2 was a clear and tangible increase in throttle response in all driving modes. You could consider it a reduction in “turbo lag” if you want to call it that. Turbo definitely spools faster and the time from pedal input to boost is reduced. Helps in both acceleration from a dig and just leaning into throttle in higher gears. There was also a little more air ‘suction’ noise if that makes sense, even with 100% stock intake at this point.

I subsequently did the MPPK airbox mod (the proper way not just drilling holes) and that didn’t make as much of a seat-of-the-pants difference as the MST inlet, but it does feel/seem like the engine is breathing better, a little more ‘whoosh’ from the DV.

In addition to looking at the logs themselves on datazap, I did a little digging and data postprocessing for 8 logs:

3 with stock inlet, stock intake and airbox (AFE pro dry s drop in): https://datazap.me/u/thejeremyman9/t...og=0&data=4-21

3 with MST inlet, stock intake and airbox (AFE pro dry s drop in): https://datazap.me/u/thejeremyman9/3...og=0&data=4-21

2 with MST inlet, stock intake and MPPK custom airbox mod (AFE pro dry s drop in): https://datazap.me/u/thejeremyman9/2...og=0&data=4-21

I was basically looking for some evidence in the datalogs that what I was doing made a difference (essentially to support what I was feeling in the car). I know most people reported changes in WGDC (lower) and MAF (higher) after inlet install on stock turbo, but its almost impossible to see looking at the actual datalogs uploaded. So I decided to go back to basics and how I used to look at logs for my 3000gt and put them in excel. The key thing this allows is for you to plot the same parameter from different logs on the same graph with the same scale.

I think there is clear evidence that the inlet and the MPPK both decrease WGDC for the same boost level. I did not see an increase in MAF, which I assume is because I am running MHD and I am literally right at load target in the upper RPM where MAF peaks. Other people have reported increased MAF on BM3, which makes sense given that it is a boost-based tune with a boost target high enough that you don’t reach it in the mid-upper RPM range, so you still have that room to gain with the inlet if that makes sense. If you have a custom tune, I imagine you can take advantage of the inlet even more.

I haven’t yet looked at other parameters, such as boost vs time, but I did also notice in my 1-4th gear logs from a dig that I can now completely reach boost target in 2nd gear when before I wouldn’t be able to fully reach it in the short time I am in the gear.

Bottom line, the inlet makes a difference on stock turbo. It’s not a earth shattering increase in performance, but it’s definitely tangible in the car, and I personally would do it over an intake (I plan to keep stock intake with MPPK mod I have done) without hesitation.

Images below are from the MST install and the MPPK airbox mod, I did it the proper way to mimic MPPK instead of just drilling holes.

View post on imgur.com

Attached is the graph of WGDC.

[sspade]

@thejeremyman9

Is there a DIY that you followed for the MPPK air box mod?

Ive been meaning to do this for a while but would like something to follow along with rather than just winging it.

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by sspade

@thejeremyman9

Is there a DIY that you followed for the MPPK air box mod?

Ive been meaning to do this for a while but would like something to follow along with rather than just winging it.

No, I bascially just printed out a few pictures of the MPPK airbox, looked at those And where the air is actually coming from under the hood, and drew the lines you see in my pictures, then cut it. Its intentionally cut at an angle because there is part if the car blocking airflow if you were to just cut a square for example. I could do a more detailed write up but I think that and then if you look at my pictures is good.

Oh and the other thing is the snow "bucket" mod. I bascially cut it so that all of the "bucket" part of it is removed, but the actual flap on the spring is retained to cover the hole and function as normal. You can see in the pictures how I did that and well. It's actually blocking right where the air would flow if you dont cut it like I did, especially when the only way for the air to come in is from the front (pre mppk mod).

All the threads on it show people just drilling holes which is ghetto IMO, and could maybe introduce some turbulence

[Pray for Mojo]

I have the same cut out done to mine, but I also added a scoop behind the grille that directs more air through the factory duct. My M235i never came with that hinged box in the bottom of the intake.

Good work on the comparison, I could see the difference on my logs, I think it's a good mod to squeeze out whatever is left in the factory turbo or lower WGDC.