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      02-25-2020, 02:45 PM   #1
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Why I will stick with Michelin PS4Ss

I had a square set of Pilot Sport 4Ss (245/35 R19) put on last July. I drive a lot, occasionally spiritedly, and in the 16,000 miles I've put on them, they're down to the cords. Slightly more wear on the inner edge, to be expected due to the natural camber of the car plus I'm lowered.

On these tires, Michelin offers a 30,000 mile treadwear warranty, so my prorated discount came to a savings of -$476.40 on a replacement set that would've cost $1028. So my total out of pocket came to $689.63 including mounting, balance, TPMS service, etc. Less than a new set of lesser, more "budget-minded" tire options. Yes, there is a higher level of entry, but if you go through tires quickly, I think it's worth the warranty.

Disclaimer, having a square setup is key because the warranty stipulates that tires are rotated and balanced properly. If you run staggered, the warranty mileage is cut in half. Also, if you run a lot of negative camber and the wear is TOO uneven, Michelin may reject the warranty claim. Store manager at my America's Tire said mine were close but was even enough that it should be ok.
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      02-26-2020, 12:17 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jh_f30 View Post
I had a square set of Pilot Sport 4Ss (245/35 R19) put on last July. I drive a lot, occasionally spiritedly, and in the 16,000 miles I've put on them, they're down to the cords. Slightly more wear on the inner edge, to be expected due to the natural camber of the car plus I'm lowered.

On these tires, Michelin offers a 30,000 mile treadwear warranty, so my prorated discount came to a savings of -$476.40 on a replacement set that would've cost $1028. So my total out of pocket came to $689.63 including mounting, balance, TPMS service, etc. Less than a new set of lesser, more "budget-minded" tire options. Yes, there is a higher level of entry, but if you go through tires quickly, I think it's worth the warranty.

Disclaimer, having a square setup is key because the warranty stipulates that tires are rotated and balanced properly. If you run staggered, the warranty mileage is cut in half. Also, if you run a lot of negative camber and the wear is TOO uneven, Michelin may reject the warranty claim. Store manager at my America's Tire said mine were close but was even enough that it should be ok.
Bolded part above - where did you hear that? I just recently got some PS4S from Costco. I know for a fact i am going to get less than 30k on them, and planned to use the mile warranty when the time comes as i have done this multiple times with other tire brands on different cars.

I am fully aware of the other "fine print" - i have read costco's and its mostlyt relaged to abnormal wear or improper alignment. I just autocrossed the car and plan to drive the 5k miles before my rotation to get the tire wear "looking" normal again. I know they will only rotate side to side if staggered, but have never heard of the warranty being cut in half. Is this explicity in writing somewhere?
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      02-26-2020, 12:35 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thejeremyman9 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by jh_f30 View Post
I had a square set of Pilot Sport 4Ss (245/35 R19) put on last July. I drive a lot, occasionally spiritedly, and in the 16,000 miles I've put on them, they're down to the cords. Slightly more wear on the inner edge, to be expected due to the natural camber of the car plus I'm lowered.

On these tires, Michelin offers a 30,000 mile treadwear warranty, so my prorated discount came to a savings of -$476.40 on a replacement set that would've cost $1028. So my total out of pocket came to $689.63 including mounting, balance, TPMS service, etc. Less than a new set of lesser, more "budget-minded" tire options. Yes, there is a higher level of entry, but if you go through tires quickly, I think it's worth the warranty.

Disclaimer, having a square setup is key because the warranty stipulates that tires are rotated and balanced properly. If you run staggered, the warranty mileage is cut in half. Also, if you run a lot of negative camber and the wear is TOO uneven, Michelin may reject the warranty claim. Store manager at my America's Tire said mine were close but was even enough that it should be ok.
Bolded part above - where did you hear that? I just recently got some PS4S from Costco. I know for a fact i am going to get less than 30k on them, and planned to use the mile warranty when the time comes as i have done this multiple times with other tire brands on different cars.

I am fully aware of the other "fine print" - i have read costco's and its mostlyt relaged to abnormal wear or improper alignment. I just autocrossed the car and plan to drive the 5k miles before my rotation to get the tire wear "looking" normal again. I know they will only rotate side to side if staggered, but have never heard of the warranty being cut in half. Is this explicity in writing somewhere?
I happened to me on a set of staggered AS3+ tires I had.

https://www.michelinman.com/on/deman...uick-Guide.pdf

At the bottom under Split Fitments:
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      02-26-2020, 11:32 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jh_f30 View Post
I happened to me on a set of staggered AS3+ tires I had.

https://www.michelinman.com/on/deman...uick-Guide.pdf

At the bottom under Split Fitments:
Thanks for the info. I guess I will be arguing with Costco when the time comes as it was not in their fine print anywhere. I'm inclined to believe they will still honor it because 30,000 miles is explicitly printed on my receipt for both front and rear tires, but only time will tell.

The other interesting thing about the screenshot is that only the rears are cut in half?
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      02-26-2020, 12:13 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thejeremyman9 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by jh_f30 View Post
I had a square set of Pilot Sport 4Ss (245/35 R19) put on last July. I drive a lot, occasionally spiritedly, and in the 16,000 miles I've put on them, they're down to the cords. Slightly more wear on the inner edge, to be expected due to the natural camber of the car plus I'm lowered.

On these tires, Michelin offers a 30,000 mile treadwear warranty, so my prorated discount came to a savings of -$476.40 on a replacement set that would've cost $1028. So my total out of pocket came to $689.63 including mounting, balance, TPMS service, etc. Less than a new set of lesser, more "budget-minded" tire options. Yes, there is a higher level of entry, but if you go through tires quickly, I think it's worth the warranty.

Disclaimer, having a square setup is key because the warranty stipulates that tires are rotated and balanced properly. If you run staggered, the warranty mileage is cut in half. Also, if you run a lot of negative camber and the wear is TOO uneven, Michelin may reject the warranty claim. Store manager at my America's Tire said mine were close but was even enough that it should be ok.
Bolded part above - where did you hear that? I just recently got some PS4S from Costco. I know for a fact i am going to get less than 30k on them, and planned to use the mile warranty when the time comes as i have done this multiple times with other tire brands on different cars.

I am fully aware of the other "fine print" - i have read costco's and its mostlyt relaged to abnormal wear or improper alignment. I just autocrossed the car and plan to drive the 5k miles before my rotation to get the tire wear "looking" normal again. I know they will only rotate side to side if staggered, but have never heard of the warranty being cut in half. Is this explicity in writing somewhere?
I do not know if it is writing somewhere, but I was told the same thing by Costco Tire center and a Just Tires rep and an America's Tires (Discount Tires in some areas) rep.
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      03-02-2020, 10:15 AM   #6
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When filling out the claim form to Michelin you need to list the date and mileage of each completed rotation.

"At the time of a claim for mileage warranty coverage, the tires must be evenly worn to 2/32nds of an inch of tread remaining, the date and odometer reading at the time of mounting must be documented, and the rotation service record must be completed, showing that the required rotations were performed."

https://www.michelinb2b.com/wps/b2bc...ure_manual.pdf
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      03-02-2020, 10:18 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by MacklinUSOB View Post
When filling out the claim form to Michelin you need to list the date and mileage of each completed rotation.

"At the time of a claim for mileage warranty coverage, the tires must be evenly worn to 2/32nds of an inch of tread remaining, the date and odometer reading at the time of mounting must be documented, and the rotation service record must be completed, showing that the required rotations were performed."

https://www.michelinb2b.com/wps/b2bc...ure_manual.pdf
Fortunately, going through my local America's Tire, they take care of all the paperwork since they have all the records.
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      03-02-2020, 11:03 AM   #8
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Fortunately, going through my local America's Tire, they take care of all the paperwork since they have all the records.
You did it right!
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      03-03-2020, 12:34 PM   #9
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You did it right!
I have made multiple mileage claims over the years when my tires have worn out before the mileage guarantee and i have never once been asked to actually complete any of the paperwork for the warranty myself. I have really only been asked to confirm documentation for the rotations (which are essentially always done at the place you get the tires from so no additional paperwork is required). Maybe this only applies if you order direct or from tirerack or something?
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      03-03-2020, 06:06 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thejeremyman9 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacklinUSOB View Post
You did it right!
I have made multiple mileage claims over the years when my tires have worn out before the mileage guarantee and i have never once been asked to actually complete any of the paperwork for the warranty myself. I have really only been asked to confirm documentation for the rotations (which are essentially always done at the place you get the tires from so no additional paperwork is required). Maybe this only applies if you order direct or from tirerack or something?
Correct, for all of us Tire Rack people that's the case.
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      03-05-2020, 05:41 PM   #11
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I had PS4S installed. I had BMW OEM Pirelli P7s before. Definitely made a big difference in the car. Much more tire grip and the ride is more comfortable as well.

For the warranty, the shop told me I need to have a wheel alignment and documented tire rotations every 5-6k miles in order to maintain the tire warranty. I usually do my own tire rotations so this part is kinda a bummer as I need to set aside extra time to drive to a shop and pay someone to do it.
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      03-05-2020, 06:16 PM   #12
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I had PS4S installed. I had BMW OEM Pirelli P7s before. Definitely made a big difference in the car. Much more tire grip and the ride is more comfortable as well.

For the warranty, the shop told me I need to have a wheel alignment and documented tire rotations every 5-6k miles in order to maintain the tire warranty. I usually do my own tire rotations so this part is kinda a bummer as I need to set aside extra time to drive to a shop and pay someone to do it.
Where did you get them installed? Every single tire shop i have ever had tires installed at offered free rotations as a part of the installation price.
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      03-05-2020, 08:17 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thejeremyman9 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Z K View Post
I had PS4S installed. I had BMW OEM Pirelli P7s before. Definitely made a big difference in the car. Much more tire grip and the ride is more comfortable as well.

For the warranty, the shop told me I need to have a wheel alignment and documented tire rotations every 5-6k miles in order to maintain the tire warranty. I usually do my own tire rotations so this part is kinda a bummer as I need to set aside extra time to drive to a shop and pay someone to do it.
Where did you get them installed? Every single tire shop i have ever had tires installed at offered free rotations as a part of the installation price.
Same here. Not so alignment, but isn't an alignment at 5k miles a little overkill (unless. you hit something) ?
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      03-06-2020, 01:29 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luckstr View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by thejeremyman9 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Z K View Post
I had PS4S installed. I had BMW OEM Pirelli P7s before. Definitely made a big difference in the car. Much more tire grip and the ride is more comfortable as well.

For the warranty, the shop told me I need to have a wheel alignment and documented tire rotations every 5-6k miles in order to maintain the tire warranty. I usually do my own tire rotations so this part is kinda a bummer as I need to set aside extra time to drive to a shop and pay someone to do it.
Where did you get them installed? Every single tire shop i have ever had tires installed at offered free rotations as a part of the installation price.
Same here. Not so alignment, but isn't an alignment at 5k miles a little overkill (unless. you hit something) ?
I told the manager at America's Tire that I do my own rotations. He still took em. Ymmv.
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      03-13-2020, 04:52 PM   #15
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Same here. Not so alignment, but isn't an alignment at 5k miles a little overkill (unless. you hit something) ?
The alignment is not needed every 5k miles. But you need an alignment I believe soon before or after installation to prove that your alignment is good. A bad alignment will chew up tires very quickly.

I usually go to a local shop that mounts my wheels and tires. They always do an excellent job and it is the same tech that does every car that comes in. I've had a bad experience with large chain tire stores scratching my wheels. I also prefer to just rotate tires myself as its more convenient to do it at home.
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      03-13-2020, 05:13 PM   #16
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Quote:
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Quote:
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Same here. Not so alignment, but isn't an alignment at 5k miles a little overkill (unless. you hit something) ?
The alignment is not needed every 5k miles. But you need an alignment I believe soon before or after installation to prove that your alignment is good. A bad alignment will chew up tires very quickly.

I usually go to a local shop that mounts my wheels and tires. They always do an excellent job and it is the same tech that does every car that comes in. I've had a bad experience with large chain tire stores scratching my wheels. I also prefer to just rotate tires myself as its more convenient to do it at home.
Agree. I just put new Indy 500's on my 2017 440i convertible (@ 18,000mi) replacing the OEM Pirelli P-zero's. Had a 4 wheel alignment done after installation. Passenger rear very slightly out of BMW spec but I could have lived with it. All work done at Firestone store near me and no marks/scratches on wheels. Tech there was real good. Since it's free, I'll probably bring it in to check alignment at 10,000 mi. Can't rotate because I have staggered set-up. BTW, the tires are great so far.
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      04-03-2020, 03:36 PM   #17
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A question to jh_f30 (or anyone with tire warranty claim experience):

One of the common tire wear warranty requirement is for the tires to wear out down to 2/32" between a certain period.

In your case, the inner edges are for sure below 2/32" since they are down to the cords. How about the outer edges?

I am wondering if they will take into account the lowest measurement or the highest portion. Example: inner edge is 2/32" but the outside is still 4/32", will they honor the warranty?

Personally, I would think that VERY few people can take advantage of tire wear warranty. If the alignment is neutral and all four tires wear evenly, it would be dangerous to drive around until the whole surface of the tires (inside, middle, outside) wear down to 2/32".

Most people would've replaced the tire before this.
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      04-03-2020, 04:59 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreyF30 View Post
A question to jh_f30 (or anyone with tire warranty claim experience):

One of the common tire wear warranty requirement is for the tires to wear out down to 2/32" between a certain period.

In your case, the inner edges are for sure below 2/32" since they are down to the cords. How about the outer edges?

I am wondering if they will take into account the lowest measurement or the highest portion. Example: inner edge is 2/32" but the outside is still 4/32", will they honor the warranty?

Personally, I would think that VERY few people can take advantage of tire wear warranty. If the alignment is neutral and all four tires wear evenly, it would be dangerous to drive around until the whole surface of the tires (inside, middle, outside) wear down to 2/32".

Most people would've replaced the tire before this.
based on my experience, it seems to kind of depend. For this particular claim, the first associate at America's Tire I spoke to said that the uneven wear might be a problem due to "excessive camber" (my car is lowered, so naturally the negative camber exceeds factory spec). The manager went out and measured the tires and said, "I think it SHOULD be ok." He explained that if it was bad enough, Michelin wouldn't take them back. Admittedly, I did wait way too long and there was no real tread to measure to begin with. Cords were exposed on the inner treads, outer treads were worn almost bald.

I imagine some shops might not want to take the chance, and I can't speak to how much variance between inner and outer wear Michelin considers "allowable". I would GUESS that 2/32nds difference wouldn't cause any red flags, especially for performance tires. I'm sure all parties involved are aware that sports/sporty cars run some amount of negative camber from the factory. I don't have a camber kit on my car, so if you do and you're running upwards of -2 degrees or more, and the inner tread is down to the wear bars and the outer tread is still 5-6/32nds (hypothetically), there's probably a good chance they'll reject them.

Also, I don't know that the warranty only applies to tires that have worn down to 2/32". If you get down to 3-4/32" after 15K miles on a 30K mile-warrantied tire, you might have a good case for replacement with close to a 50% prorate. However, again, YMMV depending on your shop, rep, manager, etc.

In any case, it worked for me and I came away with a set of brand new MPS4Ss for under $700, mounted & balanced.
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      04-03-2020, 07:00 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by jh_f30 View Post
based on my experience, it seems to kind of depend. For this particular claim, the first associate at America's Tire I spoke to said that the uneven wear might be a problem due to "excessive camber" (my car is lowered, so naturally the negative camber exceeds factory spec). The manager went out and measured the tires and said, "I think it SHOULD be ok." He explained that if it was bad enough, Michelin wouldn't take them back. Admittedly, I did wait way too long and there was no real tread to measure to begin with. Cords were exposed on the inner treads, outer treads were worn almost bald.

I imagine some shops might not want to take the chance, and I can't speak to how much variance between inner and outer wear Michelin considers "allowable". I would GUESS that 2/32nds difference wouldn't cause any red flags, especially for performance tires. I'm sure all parties involved are aware that sports/sporty cars run some amount of negative camber from the factory. I don't have a camber kit on my car, so if you do and you're running upwards of -2 degrees or more, and the inner tread is down to the wear bars and the outer tread is still 5-6/32nds (hypothetically), there's probably a good chance they'll reject them.

Also, I don't know that the warranty only applies to tires that have worn down to 2/32". If you get down to 3-4/32" after 15K miles on a 30K mile-warrantied tire, you might have a good case for replacement with close to a 50% prorate. However, again, YMMV depending on your shop, rep, manager, etc.

In any case, it worked for me and I came away with a set of brand new MPS4Ss for under $700, mounted & balanced.
I see. Thank you for your response!

The reason for the questions above was that I am currently looking for a new set of tires, and slightly considering going square (currently riding on staggered 400m's) to maximize the mileage warranty.

After doing further research, it seems that the warranty for Michelin has more "gray area" compared to Continental (the tire I'm interested in).

Continental's:
"Subject to the provisions of Section 4 in the Total Confidence Plan, if one of the tires listed in this section wears out before the stated mileage/ kilometer coverage, CTA will warrant the tire on a pro-rata basis as indicated herein. "Wearout" means that the tire's tread has worn evenly down to the tread wear indicators (2/32nds of an inch or 1.6 mm of tread remaining.)"

Michelin's:
"If the tire treadwear does not reach its mileage warranty a pro rata replacement of the tire may be available under this warranty. For the mileage warranty associated with a specific tire, please see your Michelin tire retailer or visit www.michelinman.com/promise"

Continental's seems to only allow a claim if the tires are already 2/32nd. While, I guess, Michelin *might* allow a claim if we can show the the usage trajectory will wear out the tires before reaching the mileage warranty. Such as your example of "get down to 3-4/32" after 15K miles on a 30K mile-warrantied tire".
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      04-03-2020, 07:07 PM   #20
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I see. Thank you for your response!

The reason for the questions above was that I am currently looking for a new set of tires, and slightly considering going square (currently riding on staggered 400m's) to maximize the mileage warranty.

After doing further research, it seems that the warranty for Michelin has more "gray area" compared to Continental (the tire I'm interested in).

Continental's:
"Subject to the provisions of Section 4 in the Total Confidence Plan, if one of the tires listed in this section wears out before the stated mileage/ kilometer coverage, CTA will warrant the tire on a pro-rata basis as indicated herein. "Wearout" means that the tire's tread has worn evenly down to the tread wear indicators (2/32nds of an inch or 1.6 mm of tread remaining.)"

Michelin's:
"If the tire treadwear does not reach its mileage warranty a pro rata replacement of the tire may be available under this warranty. For the mileage warranty associated with a specific tire, please see your Michelin tire retailer or visit www.michelinman.com/promise"

Continental's seems to only allow a claim if the tires are already 2/32nd. While, I guess, Michelin *might* allow a claim if we can show the the usage trajectory will wear out the tires before reaching the mileage warranty. Such as your example of "get down to 3-4/32" after 15K miles on a 30K mile-warrantied tire".
I dont think anyone is going to replace a (functioning, i.e., without some other manufacturer defect) tire that is not down to the wear bars even if you show you will wear it out before the mileage warranty. I have not warrantied my PS4S or my PSS on my other car, but i have warrantied all seasons from other brands before in the past. For example I was down to the wear bars at 24k on a 30k tire. Wear was even, tires were square since the car is AWD. I had all rotations etc since it was done through the shop. I went to one goodyear tire center and he literally said "24k is basically 30k so we arent going to give you anything for that, you are just going to have to buy a new set". I left and went to another goodyear a few miles away and they prorated the 20% for a new set of the same tires. So, it is highly location/manager dependent.
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      04-03-2020, 08:15 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by thejeremyman9 View Post
I dont think anyone is going to replace a (functioning, i.e., without some other manufacturer defect) tire that is not down to the wear bars even if you show you will wear it out before the mileage warranty. I have not warrantied my PS4S or my PSS on my other car, but i have warrantied all seasons from other brands before in the past. For example I was down to the wear bars at 24k on a 30k tire. Wear was even, tires were square since the car is AWD. I had all rotations etc since it was done through the shop. I went to one goodyear tire center and he literally said "24k is basically 30k so we arent going to give you anything for that, you are just going to have to buy a new set". I left and went to another goodyear a few miles away and they prorated the 20% for a new set of the same tires. So, it is highly location/manager dependent.
Costco said they would prorate and apply the discount to a new set. I just ignore the whole thing since it is not saving a whole heck and square is boring. 255s on the rears look weak.
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      04-03-2020, 09:19 PM   #22
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thejeremyman9 View Post
I dont think anyone is going to replace a (functioning, i.e., without some other manufacturer defect) tire that is not down to the wear bars even if you show you will wear it out before the mileage warranty. I have not warrantied my PS4S or my PSS on my other car, but i have warrantied all seasons from other brands before in the past. For example I was down to the wear bars at 24k on a 30k tire. Wear was even, tires were square since the car is AWD. I had all rotations etc since it was done through the shop. I went to one goodyear tire center and he literally said "24k is basically 30k so we arent going to give you anything for that, you are just going to have to buy a new set". I left and went to another goodyear a few miles away and they prorated the 20% for a new set of the same tires. So, it is highly location/manager dependent.
Costco said they would prorate and apply the discount to a new set. I just ignore the whole thing since it is not saving a whole heck and square is boring. 255s on the rears look weak.
Boring in what way?
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