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      04-05-2020, 04:21 PM   #1
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Spark plug Q

I need to change plugs. Plan to tune MHD 2+. I have spoken to a few members who have said the stock plugs are fine for a stage 2 tune.
MY question tho is, I was going to order the Bosch from FCP euro but it says the " pre gap is set at .08". Is that Ok for the stage 2 tune or do I need to buy a gap tool and change it to .22 or whatever? I have read a lot of different info on this topic and I am just unsure which to go with.
Appreciate some insight on this topic
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      04-05-2020, 05:34 PM   #2
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I am in the same boat and pondering this same question. I just got a quote to change spark plugs and the dealer wanted $760, lol. So, i will be doing it myself. I am running MHD 2+ 91 tune with IC/CP/DP and i dont have any issues with my OEM plugs that have 44k miles on them... So i am highly leaning toward stock plugs.

I think what i am going to do is order the bosch ones, check the gaps of the ones coming out, and set my new ones around the same or slightly smaller. Yes, the Bosch are pregapped, and i think technically you are not supposed to adjust the gap on them, but i think that is mostly because of concern with messing up the electrode, so i dont think there will be an issue slightly closing the gap. The 0.8mm is about 0.031in, and i am thinking about going down to 0.030 just to be safe.
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      04-05-2020, 05:40 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thejeremyman9 View Post
I am in the same boat and pondering this same question. I just got a quote to change spark plugs and the dealer wanted $760, lol. So, i will be doing it myself. I am running MHD 2+ 91 tune with IC/CP/DP and i dont have any issues with my OEM plugs that have 44k miles on them... So i am highly leaning toward stock plugs.

I think what i am going to do is order the bosch ones, check the gaps of the ones coming out, and set my new ones around the same or slightly smaller. Yes, the Bosch are pregapped, and i think technically you are not supposed to adjust the gap on them, but i think that is mostly because of concern with messing up the electrode, so i dont think there will be an issue slightly closing the gap. The 0.8mm is about 0.031in, and i am thinking about going down to 0.030 just to be safe.
You were one of the few I spoke with so I really appreciate your input. Yeah my local Bmw wanted $518. But yeah my biggest thing is everyone says change the gap but it's such a misconception. I'm thinking I might tune the car first. See how it runs on the plugs then do what your saying. Swap them out and see what the gap is on the current ones. But the fcp is set at .08. I watched kies video on YouTube and he didn't say anything about changing gap either. So I'm like what to do?? Lol
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      04-05-2020, 07:05 PM   #4
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Yeah the kies video does specifically say for stock or stage 1 and you might want to consider different plugs/gap with stage 2 or higher. However i thought someone said that MHD recommend stock plugs for up to stage 2+ on a stock turbo application.

Since my OEM ones with 44k are doing fine, i dont see any reason to switch. Generally speaking, you want the largest gap possible without getting misfires or spark blowout. Gap too small and plugs too cold is what causes idle/cold start misfires. My commute to work is literally 5.0 miles so i do not want to go to a colder plug; i feel like i am going to end up fouling them from lots of cold starts. If i was tracking or doing extended hard driving i would consider a colder plug.
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      04-06-2020, 12:58 AM   #5
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Those crazy prices to change plugs are unreal. That job is pretty easy. I changed my plugs a year ago with around 40k to stock bosch plugs. I run Mhd stage 2+ or stage 2+ ethanol map. Only misfire I had was right after changing plugs one of the coils popped off. Car runs great. Just figured why hassle with gaps and different plugs when I have always had good results with the Bosch plugs.
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      04-06-2020, 11:22 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jgoens View Post
Those crazy prices to change plugs are unreal. That job is pretty easy. I changed my plugs a year ago with around 40k to stock bosch plugs. I run Mhd stage 2+ or stage 2+ ethanol map. Only misfire I had was right after changing plugs one of the coils popped off. Car runs great. Just figured why hassle with gaps and different plugs when I have always had good results with the Bosch plugs.
Thanks for the post; another reason for me to stick with stock plugs. I will be running the same maps.

Just to confirm did you check or adjust the gap at all? or just assume they were good out of the box and drop them in?
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      04-06-2020, 01:04 PM   #7
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I am still on stock plugs as well and pretty heavily modded. I have not had any issues with the stock plugs so far. I agree with the idea of tuning the car and then changing them out if needed.
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      04-06-2020, 01:06 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jgoens View Post
Those crazy prices to change plugs are unreal. That job is pretty easy. I changed my plugs a year ago with around 40k to stock bosch plugs. I run Mhd stage 2+ or stage 2+ ethanol map. Only misfire I had was right after changing plugs one of the coils popped off. Car runs great. Just figured why hassle with gaps and different plugs when I have always had good results with the Bosch plugs.
So you just did the Bosch and did not change the gap? I also plan on just using Bosch
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VRSF catless DP
VRSF 5? HD IC
Stock intake(had open before and was sick of noise)
BMS CP
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No tune as of yet.
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      04-06-2020, 02:00 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thejeremyman9 View Post
Thanks for the post; another reason for me to stick with stock plugs. I will be running the same maps.

Just to confirm did you check or adjust the gap at all? or just assume they were good out of the box and drop them in?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tpriest7893 View Post
So you just did the Bosch and did not change the gap? I also plan on just using Bosch
Yeah, I just put them in the car as they came. On my E90 with JB4 did the same thing. While gapping is not hard, I think the gains, if any are marginal compared to the chances of messing up and necessitating tweaking.
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      04-10-2020, 04:11 PM   #10
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Spark Plug Change Part/Tool List

I'm putting together a list of everything I will need to do this job, assuming using the Bosch plugs. Different options show below.

Updated in red font what i ordered 4/14/2020

1. Plugs
FCP Euro, Bosch - https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...037580#fitment
FCP Euro, BMW Branded (Bosch) - https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...ug-12120037582
Any reason to pay more for the BMW ones?
ECS, Bosch (these still show the "S" on the end of the Part #) - https://www.ecstuning.com/b-bosch-pa...20037582~6bos/
Kies Recommended - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07GL8S81W...sports_dp_vv_d

2. Thin walled socket 14mm spark plug sucket
FCP (not magnetic but has a rubber ring for plug) - https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/12-...mm#description
FCP (OEM BMW tool, expensive) - https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...et-83300495560
ECS (says magnetic) - https://www.ecstuning.com/b-schwaben.../001247sch01a/
Turner (says magnetic) - https://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-3...cket-38-drive/
Kies Recommended (no magnet but has clips) - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B076YLTTZ5...sports_dp_vv_d

3. Torque Wrench - make sure it goes low enough, 23nm +/- 3nm (18 +/- 2 ft lbs)
After an unnecessary amount i research, i went with these:
Torque Wrench - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Device to verify, because i am paranoid and like data - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Note, watch this video regarding the impact of Ujoints on torque specs:


4. 10mm socket, E-18 Torx (external) socket. 3/8 drive, extension, other basic tools. Might need a Ujoin or swivel to use a 3/8 in extension on the plug socket due to the angle of the spark plug hole.
I dont have external torx so i am probably going to order one of these sets:
https://www.amazon.com/CASOMAN-Femal...NsaWNrPXRydWU=
Ordered these - https://www.amazon.com/Neiko-04300A-...552218&sr=8-11

5. "One time use" bolts, replace if you want to or feel necessary.
What is the part # for these? Is it 07147270121 or 31106854219? https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/sho...diagId=51_8381
I ordered a few of both. They are used in multiple places so i figured it doesnt hurt to have them.
I think its the 07# based on another thread, but realOEM is confusing - https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...20-07147270121
Here is the other one - https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...-9-31106854219


Other potential spare parts:
When you lift the coils out, the flip up pull will likely break/split, so order 2-3 of these extras. You don't need to buy a new coil!! You can reinstall a broken piece without a problem. Just a pain the next time you need to do the job.
02 Coil Locking mechanism 6x 12131437986 - https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...437986#reviews

Note: Good info and pictures of maintenance manual on this thread: https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...55+Spark+plugs
Note2: Another good bit of info: https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/f...plugs/Hp3ZNwmS
Note3: Someone elses DIY (remove spaces for website): http:// b a d b r e a d .com/2013-f30-335i-spark-plug-change-instructions/

Last edited by thejeremyman9; 04-21-2020 at 08:06 PM..
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      04-10-2020, 04:55 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thejeremyman9 View Post
I'm putting together a list of everything I will need to do this job, assuming using the Bosch plugs. Different options show below.

1. Plugs
FCP Euro, Bosch - https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...037580#fitment
FCP Euro, BMW Branded (Bosch) - https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...ug-12120037582
Any reason to pay more for the BMW ones?
ECS, Bosch (these still show the "S" on the end of the Part #) - https://www.ecstuning.com/b-bosch-pa...20037582~6bos/
Kies Recommended - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07GL8S81W...sports_dp_vv_d

2. Thin walled socket 14mm spark plug sucket
FCP (not sure if magnetic) - https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/12-...mm#description
FCP (OEM BMW tool, expensive) - https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...et-83300495560
ECS (says magnetic) - https://www.ecstuning.com/b-schwaben.../001247sch01a/
Turner (says magnetic) - https://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-3...cket-38-drive/
Kies Recommended (no magnet but has clips) - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B076YLTTZ5...sports_dp_vv_d

3. Torque Wrench - make sure it goes low enough, 23nm +/- 3nm (18 +/- 2 ft lbs)

4. 10mm socket, E-18 Torx (external) socket. 3/8 drive, extension, other basic tools. Might need a Ujoin or swivel to use a 3/8 in extension on the plug socket due to the angle of the spark plug hole.
I dont have external torx so i am probably going to order one of these sets:
https://www.amazon.com/CASOMAN-Femal...NsaWNrPXRydWU=
https://www.amazon.com/Neiko-04300A-...18&sr=8-11

5. "One time use" bolts, replace if you want to or feel necessary.
What is the part # for these? Is it 07147270121 or 31106854219? https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/sho...diagId=51_8381

Anything else?

I'm probably going to go with FCP Euro, Bosch non-BMW plugs. I like the idea of having a magnetic socket but i dont think FCP's socket is magnetic.

Note: Good info and pictures of maintenance manual on this thread: https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...55+Spark+plugs
This is very helpful. I also was going too do the Bosch non Bmw. I just needed to figure out the rest of the tools. I watched the video on YouTube by kies and the jobs looks easy!
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Stock intake(had open before and was sick of noise)
BMS CP
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No tune as of yet.
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      04-14-2020, 09:51 PM   #12
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Updated the post above with what i just ordered. I also ordered a new microfilter while i was at it. See here:

https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...4#post26049434
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      04-15-2020, 06:32 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thejeremyman9 View Post
Updated the post above with what i just ordered. I also ordered a new microfilter while i was at it. See here:

https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...4#post26049434
Nice! I did the micro filter a little while back. I'm kind of a decent size guy. What a pain that was lol. It's easy tho. Just trying to get under the cabin was a pain
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VRSF 5? HD IC
Stock intake(had open before and was sick of noise)
BMS CP
550i 351m rims with 275/245 set up.
No tune as of yet.
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      04-16-2020, 04:21 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thejeremyman9 View Post
I'm putting together a list of everything I will need to do this job, assuming using the Bosch plugs. Different options show below.

[COLOR="Red"]Updated in red font what i ordered 4/14/2020[/COLOR]

1. Plugs
[COLOR="Red"]FCP Euro, Bosch - https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...037580#fitment[/COLOR]
FCP Euro, BMW Branded (Bosch) - https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...ug-12120037582
Any reason to pay more for the BMW ones?
ECS, Bosch (these still show the "S" on the end of the Part #) - https://www.ecstuning.com/b-bosch-pa...20037582~6bos/
Kies Recommended - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07GL8S81W...sports_dp_vv_d

2. Thin walled socket 14mm spark plug sucket
[COLOR="red"]FCP (not magnetic but has a rubber ring for plug) - https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/12-...mm#description[/COLOR]
FCP (OEM BMW tool, expensive) - https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...et-83300495560
ECS (says magnetic) - https://www.ecstuning.com/b-schwaben.../001247sch01a/
Turner (says magnetic) - https://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-3...cket-38-drive/
Kies Recommended (no magnet but has clips) - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B076YLTTZ5...sports_dp_vv_d

3. Torque Wrench - make sure it goes low enough, 23nm +/- 3nm (18 +/- 2 ft lbs)

4. 10mm socket, E-18 Torx (external) socket. 3/8 drive, extension, other basic tools. Might need a Ujoin or swivel to use a 3/8 in extension on the plug socket due to the angle of the spark plug hole.
I dont have external torx so i am probably going to order one of these sets:
https://www.amazon.com/CASOMAN-Femal...NsaWNrPXRydWU=
[COLOR="red"]Ordered these - https://www.amazon.com/Neiko-04300A-...18&sr=8-11[/COLOR]

5. "One time use" bolts, replace if you want to or feel necessary.
What is the part # for these? Is it 07147270121 or 31106854219? https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/sho...diagId=51_8381
I ordered a few of both. They are used in multiple places so i figured it doesnt hurt to have them.
[COLOR="red"]I think its the 07# based on another thread, but realOEM is confusing - https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...20-07147270121
Here is the other one - https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...-9-31106854219[/COLOR]

Anything else?

I'm probably going to go with FCP Euro, Bosch non-BMW plugs. I like the idea of having a magnetic socket but i dont think FCP's socket is magnetic.

Note: Good info and pictures of maintenance manual on this thread: https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...55+Spark+plugs
Did you buy a torque wrench and swivel or extension or did you already have one?
__________________
2012 bmw 335i sedan
VRSF catless DP
VRSF 5? HD IC
Stock intake(had open before and was sick of noise)
BMS CP
550i 351m rims with 275/245 set up.
No tune as of yet.
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      04-16-2020, 05:42 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tpriest7893 View Post
Did you buy a torque wrench and swivel or extension or did you already have one?
In the process of researching and deciding on this right now. Hoping to decide and order tonight. I have plenty of extensions, including ujoints, so that's fine. I also i have a harbor freight torque wrench but i am paranoid about using that to torque the plugs because i just have nightmares about stripping the head lol.

Basically, I cant decide if i want to spent the money to buy a nice digital torque wrench ($100-150), or if i want to get a high rated mechanical one and potentially combine that with a device to measure torque to confirm accuracy. Probably overkill, but again, mostly just my paranoia.

Here's where i am at right now with research:

Mechanical option - https://www.amazon.com/TEKTON-24330-...7061687&sr=8-5
Pair with this if paranoid: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B004VYUKTC...v_ov_lig_dp_it

Electric option 1 - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07WTSRZKH...v_ov_lig_dp_it

Electric option 2 - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01AY0JF42...s_dp_vv_d&th=1

Ill post back when i make a decision. I am just going to invest in something i will use in the future for torque sensitive projects. I torqued spark plugs in my 3000gt with the harbor freight ones, but i was a little less worried in that case. I also cross referenced by 1/4 in and 3/8 in drives lol.

Also, i asked around and it seems some people do not use a Ujoint while others do. The manual specifically states to use a ujoint, see attached photo below. I have read several threads and seen videos where people break the insulator because of not using the Ujoint, so it has some merit. But other people have no issues...
Attached Images
 
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      04-16-2020, 05:44 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thejeremyman9 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tpriest7893 View Post
Did you buy a torque wrench and swivel or extension or did you already have one?
In the process of researching and deciding on this right now. Hoping to decide and order tonight. I have plenty of extensions, including ujoints, so that's fine. I also i have a harbor freight torque wrench but i am paranoid about using that to torque the plugs because i just have nightmares about stripping the head lol.

Basically, I cant decide if i want to spent the money to buy a nice digital torque wrench ($100-150), or if i want to get a high rated mechanical one and potentially combine that with a device to measure torque to confirm accuracy. Probably overkill, but again, mostly just my paranoia.

Here's where i am at right now with research:

Mechanical option - https://www.amazon.com/TEKTON-24330-...687&sr=8-5
Pair with this if paranoid: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B004VYUKTC...v_ov_lig_dp_it

Electric option 1 - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07WTSRZKH...v_ov_lig_dp_it

Electric option 2 - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01AY0JF42..._vv_d&th=1

Ill post back when i make a decision. I am just going to invest in something i will use in the future for torque sensitive projects. I torqued spark plugs in my 3000gt with the harbor freight ones, but i was a little less worried in that case. I also cross referenced by 1/4 in and 3/8 in drives lol.

Also, i asked around and it seems some people do not use a Ujoint while others do. The manual specifically states to use a ujoint, see attached photo below. I have read several threads and seen videos where people break the insulator because of not using the Ujoint, so it has some merit. But other people have no issues...
Thanks man. I need to do the same. Just order all the stuff and get to it
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2012 bmw 335i sedan
VRSF catless DP
VRSF 5? HD IC
Stock intake(had open before and was sick of noise)
BMS CP
550i 351m rims with 275/245 set up.
No tune as of yet.
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      04-16-2020, 05:46 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thejeremyman9 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tpriest7893 View Post
Did you buy a torque wrench and swivel or extension or did you already have one?
In the process of researching and deciding on this right now. Hoping to decide and order tonight. I have plenty of extensions, including ujoints, so that's fine. I also i have a harbor freight torque wrench but i am paranoid about using that to torque the plugs because i just have nightmares about stripping the head lol.

Basically, I cant decide if i want to spent the money to buy a nice digital torque wrench ($100-150), or if i want to get a high rated mechanical one and potentially combine that with a device to measure torque to confirm accuracy. Probably overkill, but again, mostly just my paranoia.

Here's where i am at right now with research:

Mechanical option - https://www.amazon.com/TEKTON-24330-...687&sr=8-5
Pair with this if paranoid: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B004VYUKTC...v_ov_lig_dp_it

Electric option 1 - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07WTSRZKH...v_ov_lig_dp_it

Electric option 2 - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01AY0JF42..._vv_d&th=1

Ill post back when i make a decision. I am just going to invest in something i will use in the future for torque sensitive projects. I torqued spark plugs in my 3000gt with the harbor freight ones, but i was a little less worried in that case. I also cross referenced by 1/4 in and 3/8 in drives lol.

Also, i asked around and it seems some people do not use a Ujoint while others do. The manual specifically states to use a ujoint, see attached photo below. I have read several threads and seen videos where people break the insulator because of not using the Ujoint, so it has some merit. But other people have no issues...
I don't have compressed air, you think using a shop vac to vacuum the spark holes would be ideal if you don't have the air?
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2012 bmw 335i sedan
VRSF catless DP
VRSF 5? HD IC
Stock intake(had open before and was sick of noise)
BMS CP
550i 351m rims with 275/245 set up.
No tune as of yet.
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      04-16-2020, 06:41 PM   #18
thejeremyman9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tpriest7893 View Post
I don't have compressed air, you think using a shop vac to vacuum the spark holes would be ideal if you don't have the air?
Do you mean using the output of it to blow the air in? Or actually trying to vacuum down in the holes? Not sure if that would blow strong enough, and the vacuum attachments might not fit...

If you want to invest for the future, get a small compressor from harbor freight. usually the 3 gallon 100psi ones are like <$40 when on sale.

You could also just get some air dusters for like a computer. They blow decently strong. Usually a value pack is a good deal at costco. Personally i would just buy the cheap compressor since i have already used mine for numerous applications, including boost leak testing my BMW. Let me know if you cant find a harbor freight coupon for 39.99.
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      04-16-2020, 06:44 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thejeremyman9 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tpriest7893 View Post
I don't have compressed air, you think using a shop vac to vacuum the spark holes would be ideal if you don't have the air?
Do you mean using the output of it to blow the air in? Or actually trying to vacuum down in the holes? Not sure if that would blow strong enough, and the vacuum attachments might not fit...

If you want to invest for the future, get a small compressor from harbor freight. usually the 3 gallon 100psi ones are like <$40 when on sale.

You could also just get some air dusters for like a computer. They blow decently strong. Usually a value pack is a good deal at costco. Personally i would just buy the cheap compressor since i have already used mine for numerous applications, including boost leak testing my BMW. Let me know if you cant find a harbor freight coupon for 39.99.
Good call!
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2012 bmw 335i sedan
VRSF catless DP
VRSF 5? HD IC
Stock intake(had open before and was sick of noise)
BMS CP
550i 351m rims with 275/245 set up.
No tune as of yet.
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      04-16-2020, 09:32 PM   #20
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Just came across this in another thread and updated my post above with it, FYI:

https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/f...plugs/Hp3ZNwmS
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      04-17-2020, 07:40 PM   #21
thejeremyman9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tpriest7893 View Post
Did you buy a torque wrench and swivel or extension or did you already have one?
After an unnecessary amount i research, i went with these:
Torque Wrench - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Device to verify, because i am paranoid and like data - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Note, watch this video regarding the impact of Ujoints on torque specs:


Opted not to get a digital one. If i was going to, gear wrench seems to the best. Harbor freight one also has good reviews and test results.
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      04-19-2020, 03:55 AM   #22
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Harbor Freight torque wrenches have failed me twice. I replaced mine with their high end Ikon torque wrench, but I don't know if it goes low enough for spark plugs (grrr!).

You need to use a torque wrench with care. It needs to be true — the head needs to be at 90 degrees and not tilted or twisted. Don't use a wobble extension when measuring torque. If you've properly removed all the instructions (the brace, namely), you shouldn't need a wobble extension.
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