[gippy]

Just realised the Title is misleading, so im asking if there's any issues with using the Named approved oils in ISTA that aren't BMW's own Twinpower brand (which i think is just rebranded shell?)

Had my car 4.5 years now. Always used BMW twinpower oil, 0w30 LL04.

Always done it yearly, 1 year DIY, 1 year at a VAT registered garage to keep my extended-warranty valid. I always supply the oil+filter to the garage.

But now 83212365929 is proving to be difficult to find - no bmw dealers near me have it in stock.

ISTA has a list of "named LL-04 approved oils", and the 2 brands i can find easily in the UK are:

Shell Helix Ultra ECT 0w-30 is £13.22 a litre.
Castrol Edge 0w-30 £9.14/litre. The cheapest i've ever seen it (amazon black friday)

The castrol is significantly cheaper.

I don't track it or anything, infact most of the miles are either motorway or going to supermarket.
Does anyone think going for Castrol Edge over my usual BMW Twinpower will make the slightest bit of difference to my car?

[Billfitz]

It's not rebranded Shell, not this week at any rate. It's now rebranded Castrol. The only thing that tells you is that when BMW's former marketing deal expired Castrol gave them the lowest price. Any LL04 will do. FWIW many BMW dealers have stopped stocking 5w-30 and have gone to 0w-20 to reduce inventory, as with LCI and later 0w-20 is the stock weight.

[F32Fleet]

Any LL04 is fine. Weight is irrelevant.

Castrol
Shell
Total
Liqui-Moly
Ravenol
Pentosin
Rowe

[edycol]

Originally Posted by Billfitz

It's not rebranded Shell, not this week at any rate. It's now rebranded Castrol. The only thing that tells you is that when BMW's former marketing deal expired Castrol gave them the lowest price. Any LL04 will do. FWIW many BMW dealers have stopped stocking 5w-30 and have gone to 0w-20 to reduce inventory, as with LCI and later 0w-20 is the stock weight.

It is not Castrol.
Castrol is supplier for North America. Shell stayed supplier for rest of the world.
But that is irrelevant. Point of approvals is for owners not to "fish" for oils. If it is approved, it is good to go.
That being said, as of 2018 no 0WXX oil can be LL01 or LL04. So, if there are 0W30 oils with LL04, those are old batches.
Depending on an engine, it is not a problem running oils without LL approval, but with corresponding MB approval like MB229.51. If it is N55 it is ok. If it is N20 generation approved oils are probably best way due to timing chain test these approvals have since 2018.

[Cytoplasm0671]

Sorry, if there are no LL01 or LL04 0wXX oils anymore, can you suggest a few options for my 2017 340i to run 0W30?

[Aaron77]

Why not a 0w-20 BMW Longlife-17 FE+ instead of the 0w-30 on the 340i?

[Cytoplasm0671]

Worried it's too thin.

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by Cytoplasm0671

Sorry, if there are no LL01 or LL04 0wXX oils anymore, can you suggest a few options for my 2017 340i to run 0W30?

Mobil 1 ESP

Unless you live in extreme northern/southern latitudes there's no difference between 0w30 vs 5w30.

UK weather is rather temperate. Not a lot of sub 0C days.

[Th3Walrus]

Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5w40 LL-01 (this is what I run in my 340i) or Pennzoil Platinum Euro L 5w30 LL-04 (requires more frequent oil changes).

[edycol]

Originally Posted by Cytoplasm0671

Sorry, if there are no LL01 or LL04 0wXX oils anymore, can you suggest a few options for my 2017 340i to run 0W30?

You can go BMW TPT 0W30 LL01FE. But, that is FE oil. You are going with lower HTHS.
Now, if you are in North Michigan, this might be better solution during winter.

[Cytoplasm0671]

Am going with Pennzoil platinum euro 5w40 and if Blackstone shows high Fe wear in winter I'll switch to BMW TPT 0W30 in winter. How does that sound?

[Billfitz]

I don't see the point of 40 weight with a modern engine designed for use with 20 or 30. The last time I used 40 would have been in 1974, before I started using Mobil 1.

[Cytoplasm0671]

Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5w40 is BMW LL01 certified, thus it is approved for the B58

[Billfitz]

Sure, but just because you can doesn't mean that you should, especially in your neck of the woods. Why you're worried that 20 and 30 are too thin doesn't compute. If they were BMW dealerships wouldn't be using them. What you'd have a hard time finding at a dealership is 40, even for diesel.

[Cytoplasm0671]

I don't think you understand winter viscosity numbers. The 5W in 5W-30, which the engine is approved for, is how free flowing the oil is in (W)inter. So 5W-40 and 5W-30 (or 5W-9000) have the exact same cold weather performance.

Add a tune to the engine to increase HP and that 40 viscosity might be perfect as well. And all this will be monitored for engine wear with Blackstone samples, so I'll stop right away if it's hurting the engine.

[Th3Walrus]

Originally Posted by Cytoplasm0671

I don't think you understand winter viscosity numbers. The 5W in 5W-30, which the engine is approved for, is how free flowing the oil is in (W)inter. So 5W-40 and 5W-30 (or 5W-9000) have the exact same cold weather performance.

Not exactly. The first number is for cold weather startup. Once the engine is up to temperature, the 2nd number is the running viscosity regardless of outside temperature.

[Cytoplasm0671]

That's what I meant to say but you said it better

[Prak903]

Originally Posted by Cytoplasm0671

I don't think you understand winter viscosity numbers. The 5W in 5W-30, which the engine is approved for, is how free flowing the oil is in (W)inter. So 5W-40 and 5W-30 (or 5W-9000) have the exact same cold weather performance.

Add a tune to the engine to increase HP and that 40 viscosity might be perfect as well. And all this will be monitored for engine wear with Blackstone samples, so I'll stop right away if it's hurting the engine.

So for us Midwesterners, you think 0W will be okay for the winter? i'm also BM3 tuned so probably will go 40 viscosity.

[Billfitz]

Originally Posted by Cytoplasm0671

I don't think you understand winter viscosity numbers.

I've understood since I bought my first car. That was in 1969. If you lived in New Hampshire in the days of mineral oil and didn't understand the numbers you often ended up with a battery that died before the car would start when it got down below zero. It was when I worked in a dealership garage that I learned that 40 was for when you had an old engine with worn rings and bearings. Otherwise 30 was better.

[edycol]

Originally Posted by Billfitz

Sure, but just because you can doesn't mean that you should, especially in your neck of the woods. Why you're worried that 20 and 30 are too thin doesn't compute. If they were BMW dealerships wouldn't be using them. What you'd have a hard time finding at a dealership is 40, even for diesel.

LL04 is used in B58 everywhere in Europe. LL01 in other markets with higher sulfur levels. In US is 0W20 due to CAFE. Engine is designed for thicker, minimum HTHS 3.5mpas oils. That means heavy 30 light 40 oils. That is how European engines are designed due to different demands.

[edycol]

Originally Posted by Cytoplasm0671

I don't think you understand winter viscosity numbers. The 5W in 5W-30, which the engine is approved for, is how free flowing the oil is in (W)inter. So 5W-40 and 5W-30 (or 5W-9000) have the exact same cold weather performance.

Add a tune to the engine to increase HP and that 40 viscosity might be perfect as well. And all this will be monitored for engine wear with Blackstone samples, so I'll stop right away if it's hurting the engine.

It is not free flowing. That is pour point and does not have anything to do with cold performance. From pour point you can though figure what base stocks oil uses.
Mclld performance is determined by Cold Cranking Simulator (CCS) that simulates performance of oil in temperatures from -35 to -5 using ASTM D5293 method. Since it simulates cranking, there is no free flow per se.

[edycol]

Originally Posted by Billfitz

I've understood since I bought my first car. That was in 1969. If you lived in New Hampshire in the days of mineral oil and didn't understand the numbers you often ended up with a battery that died before the car would start when it got down below zero. It was when I worked in a dealership garage that I learned that 40 was for when you had an old engine with worn rings and bearings. Otherwise 30 was better.

European manufacturers don't care about grades. Grades are SAE requirement. BMW and other European manufacturers base their recommendations on High Shear/High Temperature (HTHS) value. HTHS is resistance of oil to temporary or permanent loss of viscosity.
LL01 min 3.5mpas
LL04 min 3.5mpas
LL01FE min 3mpas
LL17FE min 2.6mpas.

HTHS can be different for two different 5W40 oils. For example, HTHS of Castrol Edge 5W40 is 3.6mpas, while HTHS of Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5W40 is 3.88mpas. HTHS is the most important value when it comes to protection. You have actually some 5W30 oils that have higher HTHS than 5W40 etc. It depends on base stocks, polymers etc.
40 grade, like all other grades are range, in this case 12.5 to 16.4cst. All LL approved 40 oils are "light" 40 oils, meaning they are on the verge to be 30. For example PPE 5W40 KV100 is 12.8cst. Now this is very important part, lower KV100 but higher HTHS indicates very sophisticated base stocks. This 5W40 will do better job protecting engine than any 10W40 oil for example without these approvals, even if it is synthetic. It is also better than Castrol 5W50 as it is more shear resistant and it could have HTHS even higher than ghat Castrol. So, grade per se is irrelevant from protection point. It is all about HTHS.
All these oils have excellent cold performance. Their CCS is usually close to 0W. Aby 5W40 LL01 oil is suitable fir ANY of 48 states. I started my X5 35d with Valvoline European Vehicle 5W40 LL04 at -42 here in CO. No sweat at all.
Is 0W30 or 40 better in really cold weather? Sure. And there are plenty options but not approved for BMW due to updates among BMW approvals in 2018.