[GA/\/\/\/\A_CT]

As compared to a 2016 340 (320hp) will a newer model (2020 m340xi) have a higher hp if both are given state 1 tune and catted downpipe?

I was surprised to see car and driver had their stock m340 down the 1/4 at low 12’s and 115mph…. Seems a little faster than a gen1 b58 with tune and catted downpipe, no?

[morritse]

No

[G.Newt]

Originally Posted by morritse

No

No to TU making more power than Gen 1, all things being equal? Lol.

[eluded]

TU make more

[GA/\/\/\/\A_CT]

I spoke with Alex at Mission and he said the TU is lower compression…probably more power potential

[morritse]

Stage 1 things should be pretty equal, the 11:1 compression ratio doesn't require you to neuter boost at all, maybe the TU can run a bit more timing, but higher compression also makes more power

[G.Newt]

Originally Posted by morritse

Stage 1 things should be pretty equal, the 11:1 compression ratio doesn't require you to neuter boost at all, maybe the TU can run a bit more timing, but higher compression also makes more power

Lol. TU motors make 40-50whp over Gen 1, stock for stock. That's a big ask for a stage 1 tune on Gen 1 to compensate for that and then whatever additional gains are had on the TU when those are tuned as well.

[morritse]

Originally Posted by G.Newt

Lol. TU motors make 40-50whp over Gen 1, stock for stock. That's a big ask for a stage 1 tune on Gen 1 to compensate for that and then whatever additional gains are had on the TU when those are tuned as well.

Where do you think the additional power on a stock b58tu comes from? Mechanically it doesn't have any parts that would make it produce more power other than some slightly optimized stuff that wouldn't give more than a few %, it's just a more aggressive stock tune...

The first b58TUs in the supra had 335hp and now they have 382 or whatever... Same motor besides manifold.

[335is-dct]

Originally Posted by morritse

Where do you think the additional power on a stock b58tu comes from? Mechanically it doesn't have any parts that would make it produce more power other than some slightly optimized stuff that wouldn't give more than a few %, it's just a more aggressive stock tune...

The first b58TUs in the supra had 335hp and now they have 382 or whatever... Same motor besides manifold.

Slightly more boost and fuel (especially down low) thanks to pump and injectors, along with whatever incremental increase in power the lighter timing chain crank assembly provide are my thoughts

[morritse]

Originally Posted by 335is-dct

Slightly more boost and fuel (especially down low) thanks to pump and injectors, along with whatever incremental increase in power the lighter timing chain crank assembly provide are my thoughts

But you're not going to be able to take advantage of the extra flow of the stock fuel system at stage 1 power levels...

I don't think any of those improvements would net more than 10HP on a stage 1 tune, and we can't neglect that higher compression will make more power if you're not running into timing pull.

[GA/\/\/\/\A_CT]

But are the stage 1 tunes for each car running the same amount of boost? I would guess that stage 1 on the TU runs more boost.

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by GA/\/\/\/\A_CT

But are the stage 1 tunes for each car running the same amount of boost? I would guess that stage 1 on the TU runs more boost.

bm3 stage 1 maps make more power with the TU vs gen 1.

gen 1
Stage 1 91 octane: up to 18% HP / 26% TQ

TU
Stage 1 91 octane: up to 18% HP / 28% TQ

[morritse]

Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com

bm3 stage 1 maps make more power with the TU vs gen 1.

gen 1
Stage 1 91 octane: up to 18% HP / 26% TQ

TU
Stage 1 91 octane: up to 18% HP / 28% TQ

Which TU are they using numbers for their baseline though, I think that's left out. As I said earlier, the b58tu in the first supra makes 335HP.

Obviously you're not going to get the same percentage gains from the 335hp one and the 382hp one. I bet that max% increase figure is using the 335hp TU as the baseline.

If you had the same % increase on all TUs, you'd have a stage 1 2019 supra making 395HP and a 2021 stage 1 supra making 451, which just can't be correct.

[WolfGTI]

2019 Supra 2 port head / manifold -2021 6 port manifold / head

Probably plays a part in this equation.

Originally Posted by morritse

Which TU are they using numbers for their baseline though, I think that's left out. As I said earlier, the b58tu in the first supra makes 335HP.

Obviously you're not going to get the same percentage gains from the 335hp one and the 382hp one. I bet that max% increase figure is using the 335hp TU as the baseline.

If you had the same % increase on all TUs, you'd have a stage 1 2019 supra making 395HP and a 2021 stage 1 supra making 451, which just can't be correct.

[morritse]

Originally Posted by WolfGTI

2019 Supra 2 port head / manifold -2021 6 port manifold / head

Probably plays a part in this equation.

The 6 port has been shown to flow more at 600+HP, doesn't matter for more than a few HP otherwise.

[Honeybadger23]

I have a 2016 340i Msport
1st gen b58.
Stage 2 + 93
I’m pushing around 470hp
Catless dp
Tu HPFP
Intake.
Muffler delete.
It’s fast enough lol

I’ve ran e30 and e50
And it’s a monster
It’s scary lol.

[Glemm1970]

Gen 1 + Dorch + Pure800 > Gen 2 + Pure800, on 50-70hp.

[morritse]

Originally Posted by Glemm1970

Gen 1 + Dorch + Pure800 > Gen 2 + Pure800, on 50-70hp.

Well yea you're bottlenecked by the stock TU fueling system so I don't understand the comparison. We're talking about stage 1 cars here...

[ImBlue]

Originally Posted by morritse

The 6 port has been shown to flow more at 600+HP, doesn't matter for more than a few HP otherwise.

Yeah, the 6 port should not matter. Besides the gen 1 engines already have 6 port both in the base 335hp and gen 1 mppsk 355hp.

Could changes in other parts of the drivetrain make a differnce vs the M340i? I recall I read that the M340i comes standard with the M-Sport Differential which is electro-mechanical and works with xDrive.
The F30 on the otherhand had a ??mechanical?? M-Sport Differential which was an option only available on RWD cars

[blacksapphire440i]

Originally Posted by ImBlue

Yeah, the 6 port should not matter. Besides the gen 1 engines already have 6 port both in the base 335hp and gen 1 mppsk 355hp.

Could changes in other parts of the drivetrain make a differnce vs the M340i? I recall I read that the M340i comes standard with the M-Sport Differential which is electro-mechanical and works with xDrive.
The F30 on the otherhand had a ??mechanical?? M-Sport Differential which was an option only available on RWD cars

LSD is only available on the zHP edition of the F series and comes standard on the M340i/M440i cars.

TU engine makes more due to a slightly larger turbo and fueling upgrades. I do not think their mechanical revisions (such as the timing chain) would make any more power from factory.

[kern417]

Stage 1
TU > Gen 1

Stage 2
TU > Gen 1

Stage 2+ Gen 1 = Stage 2 TU

Thanks for coming to my Ted Talk

[G.Newt]

Originally Posted by kern417

Stage 1
TU > Gen 1

Stage 2
TU > Gen 1

Stage 2+ Gen 1 = Stage 2 TU

Thanks for coming to my Ted Talk

"bUt tU sTAge 1 WOn't hAvE aNY DIffErENceS iN PoWEr oVEr gEN 1 StAGe 1"