[rlesko]

Before I start buying things I wanted to get some input with people who are much more knowledgeable than me on the subject (tuning & supporting mods).

I'm planning to go stage 1 on my car (PWG), but I want to do so responsibly. I don't think I would ever go to stage 2 for many reasons (personal and practical).

MHD says no supported mods are needed, BM3 recommends a CP. Seems like a safe bet to get a CP either way (I already had my CP fail under the original manufacturer's warranty).

Leads me to my next question- Is there any benefit to getting an FMIC with such a light tune? I know that I definitely don't want too big of an intercooler because I've read about introducing turbo lag with with one and I am not planning to track this car ever. I read good things about the wagner FMIC and it seems it has less pressure drop than the stock one, which would make it strictly better either way? I just wonder how important it is, or how much better Wagner is than say, this one BMS.

With regards to upgrading turbo, would the two aforementioned supporting mods readily support a stage 1 turbo option? I heard that PWG turbos are smaller than the EWG counterparts for this chassis, so it seems like something I'd be interested in at some point in the future.

Thanks for reading.

[fuhsm1]

CP is more an insurance item than performance. Not required for MHD, just recommended to do soon after. It will prevent OEM pipe from failure because it's made of plastic, so after enough heat cycles and age, eventually WILL crack and leave you limping home.

I have PWG 2013 335i RWD. I installed the G-Plus Intercooler and felt no lag at all. Boost remains instant from seat of the pants tests. Reduces intake temps so def helps while I push every ounce from the tiny OEM turbo. Size and dimensions look about same as the two you are looking at, for reference.

If you combine the install of the FMIC with CP it will save you time from needing to remove the CP twice.

I am running MHD Stage 2+ on 93 octane. I have high-flow VRSF catalytic converter and charge pipe.

Recently installed xHP Flashtool, seems like it mirrors the M3 shift points and speed. Absolutely recommended - I was running out of "affordable" upgrades so I took a chance. Man it's worth it for a daily driver.

Turbo upgrade starts getting into more $$ and long-term investment in the car to make it worthwhile. I was considering Pure Stage 2, though because I have around 130k miles, I'm likely done with engine mods for now. Looking at moving to an M3 platform within next couple of years.

[SlumpLord3000]

Charge pipe will break under any extra boost. Happened to me under M2 Stage 0+ tune. Replace any plastic with aluminum. Most people recommend to heat wrap the new charge pipe. FMIC cooles the extra boost so you do not get any knock. Research Bar plate vs fin tube (Wagner). If you are running a tune meaning extra boost, your blow off valve might crack (Plastic) might want to upgrade. Downpipe is a must for extra power(to release more power) and stage 2.

Edit: The downpipe will make the spool quicker as well because less gases are restricting the exhaust flow that spool the turbo.

Edit 2: Not sure why you're scared of running stage 2, the engine will just pull timing. It's not like running meth, where it will kill the engine if meth is not available.

[harkes]

Charge pipe is the only essential for Stage1. FMIC recommended if you do multiple gear pulls and any sort of track driving.

[harkes]

Originally Posted by SlumpLord3000

Charge pipe will break under any extra boost. Happened to me under M2 Stage 0+ tune. Replace any plastic with aluminum. Most people recommend to heat wrap the new charge pipe. FMIC cooles the extra boost so you do not get any knock. Research Bar plate vs fin tube (Wagner). If you are running a tune meaning extra boost, your blow off valve might crack (Plastic) might want to upgrade. Downpipe is a must for extra power(to release more power) and stage 2.

Edit: The downpipe will make the spool quicker as well because less gases are restricting the exhaust flow that spool the turbo.

Edit 2: Not sure why you're scared of running stage 2, the engine will just pull timing. It's not like running meth, where it will kill the engine if meth is not available.

Running out of meth will NOT kill the N55 unless factory safeties has been modified. Trust me!

[thejeremyman9]

I'll keep it simple: Get a CP and IC before going stage 1. Not doing so risks damage (CP) and incredibly high IATs (IC). There's zero debate here.

In terms of which IC, wagner is extremely overpriced. MAD is a new common budget option (sort of like VRSF was and still is). The 5'' HD IC is probably fine for you if you will only go stage 1 or 2, assuming you will NOT be doing any long WOT pulls, track, or canyon driving. If you are even considering a upgraded turbo later or do any of those things, get a competition or race IC. They will not introduce turbo lag.

Once you are bored with stage 1 add a DP and go stage 2/2+. After that, you can get XHP if you want (also highly recommend it) and add a turbo inlet. You dont need an intake.
You dont need to upgrade the DV.

Basically this:

Datalog stock car --> install IC+CP --> datalog to make sure no boost leaks etc --> flash stage 1 --> datalog make sure all is good (check timing for fuel quality etc)

When ready for next mods, install DP --> datalog --> flash stage 2 or 2+ --> datalog

Then if/when you want more, go XHP and get a turbo inlet.

[n55david]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

I'll keep it simple: Get a CP and IC before going stage 1. Not doing so risks damage (CP) and incredibly high IATs (IC). There's zero debate here.

In terms of which IC, wagner is extremely overpriced. MAD is a new common budget option (sort of like VRSF was and still is). The 5'' HD IC is probably fine for you if you will only go stage 1 or 2, assuming you will NOT be doing any long WOT pulls, track, or canyon driving. If you are even considering a upgraded turbo later or do any of those things, get a competition or race IC. They will not introduce turbo lag.

Once you are bored with stage 1 add a DP and go stage 2/2+. After that, you can get XHP if you want (also highly recommend it) and add a turbo inlet. You dont need an intake.
You dont need to upgrade the DV.

Basically this:

Datalog stock car —> install IC+CP —> datalog to make sure no boost leaks etc —> flash stage 1 —> datalog make sure all is good (check timing for fuel quality etc)

When ready for next mods, install DP —> datalog —> flash stage 2 or 2+ —> datalog

Then if/when you want more, go XHP and get a turbo inlet.

This

[rlesko]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

I'll keep it simple: Get a CP and IC before going stage 1. Not doing so risks damage (CP) and incredibly high IATs (IC). There's zero debate here.

In terms of which IC, wagner is extremely overpriced. MAD is a new common budget option (sort of like VRSF was and still is). The 5'' HD IC is probably fine for you if you will only go stage 1 or 2, assuming you will NOT be doing any long WOT pulls, track, or canyon driving. If you are even considering a upgraded turbo later or do any of those things, get a competition or race IC. They will not introduce turbo lag.

Once you are bored with stage 1 add a DP and go stage 2/2+. After that, you can get XHP if you want (also highly recommend it) and add a turbo inlet. You dont need an intake.
You dont need to upgrade the DV.

Basically this:

Datalog stock car --> install IC+CP --> datalog to make sure no boost leaks etc --> flash stage 1 --> datalog make sure all is good (check timing for fuel quality etc)

When ready for next mods, install DP --> datalog --> flash stage 2 or 2+ --> datalog

Then if/when you want more, go XHP and get a turbo inlet.

Thank you! I have achieved IC+CP. didn't log yet because I wasn't sure what platform I was going to go with but car has been totally smooth for the past couple weeks post installation. I think its good to go!

I have no interest in acquiring a downpipe atm. Catted downpipes that will pass emissions seems prohibitively expensive and I'm not motivated to put catless back and forth twice per year to pass state inspection. I say that because it affects my next question-

With my current supporting mods, it seems I could run either BM3 stage 1, MHD stage 1, or MHD stage 2? From what I am reading on the websites MHD Stage 2 says "upgraded IC or DP". Basically MHD Stage 2 is roughly equivalent to BM3 stage 1? FWIW this aligns with their advertised horsepower gains (MHD Stage 2 says ~370 hp, BM3 Stage 1 says ~375 HP for PWG), but also leaves me a bit confused as how is stage 1 BM3 giving more power than MHD stage 2? I know the stages are different across tuners it just seems a little weird to me that per the tuner's recommendation, BM3 is comfortable pushing you to 375 hp on stock IC and just an upgraded CP, meanwhile MHD is only comfortable pushing to 370 with CP and another bolt on?

In any case, it seems everyone hates MHD now and BM3 is the shiny new toy, but am I crazy for feeling a bit more comfortable with MHD? I also heard they may be slightly better tuning PWG, since Pureboost provides their maps and have been tuning PWG since E9X cars?

I also don't have any plans to ever install a HPFP. The only thing that I may do down the line is a stage 1 turbo, but wouldn't necessarily count on it. Based on the mods I have and what I would be willing to spend going forward MHD Seems like overall it aligns with my goals better, is there anything else I'm missing?

[johnung]

Originally Posted by rlesko

Thank you! I have achieved IC+CP. didn't log yet because I wasn't sure what platform I was going to go with but car has been totally smooth for the past couple weeks post installation. I think its good to go!

I have no interest in acquiring a downpipe atm. Catted downpipes that will pass emissions seems prohibitively expensive and I'm not motivated to put catless back and forth twice per year to pass state inspection. I say that because it affects my next question-

With my current supporting mods, it seems I could run either BM3 stage 1, MHD stage 1, or MHD stage 2? From what I am reading on the websites MHD Stage 2 says "upgraded IC or DP". Basically MHD Stage 2 is roughly equivalent to BM3 stage 1? FWIW this aligns with their advertised horsepower gains (MHD Stage 2 says ~370 hp, BM3 Stage 1 says ~375 HP for PWG), but also leaves me a bit confused as how is stage 1 BM3 giving more power than MHD stage 2? I know the stages are different across tuners it just seems a little weird to me that per the tuner's recommendation, BM3 is comfortable pushing you to 375 hp on stock IC and just an upgraded CP, meanwhile MHD is only comfortable pushing to 370 with CP and another bolt on?

In any case, it seems everyone hates MHD now and BM3 is the shiny new toy, but am I crazy for feeling a bit more comfortable with MHD? I also heard they may be slightly better tuning PWG, since Pureboost provides their maps and have been tuning PWG since E9X cars?

I also don't have any plans to ever install a HPFP. The only thing that I may do down the line is a stage 1 [...]

Seems like you are overthinking it. Just pick one and enjoy the ride.

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by rlesko

Thank you! I have achieved IC+CP. didn't log yet because I wasn't sure what platform I was going to go with but car has been totally smooth for the past couple weeks post installation. I think its good to go!

I have no interest in acquiring a downpipe atm. Catted downpipes that will pass emissions seems prohibitively expensive and I'm not motivated to put catless back and forth twice per year to pass state inspection. I say that because it affects my next question-

With my current supporting mods, it seems I could run either BM3 stage 1, MHD stage 1, or MHD stage 2? From what I am reading on the websites MHD Stage 2 says "upgraded IC or DP". Basically MHD Stage 2 is roughly equivalent to BM3 stage 1? FWIW this aligns with their advertised horsepower gains (MHD Stage 2 says ~370 hp, BM3 Stage 1 says ~375 HP for PWG), but also leaves me a bit confused as how is stage 1 BM3 giving more power than MHD stage 2? I know the stages are different across tuners it just seems a little weird to me that per the tuner's recommendation, BM3 is comfortable pushing you to 375 hp on stock IC and just an upgraded CP, meanwhile MHD is only comfortable pushing to 370 with CP and another bolt on?

In any case, it seems everyone hates MHD now and BM3 is the shiny new toy, but am I crazy for feeling a bit more comfortable with MHD? I also heard they may be slightly better tuning PWG, since Pureboost provides their maps and have been tuning PWG since E9X cars?

I also don't have any plans to ever install a HPFP. The only thing that I may do down the line is a stage 1 turbo, but wouldn't necessarily count on it. Based on the mods I have and what I would be willing to spend going forward MHD Seems like overall it aligns with my goals better, is there anything else I'm missing?

1. Your summary of the tune stages is pretty much on point. MHD does stages more incrementally as you add more hardware mods, and MHD stage 2 is similar to BM3 stage 1 in terms of power levels. As i always universally recommend, i would not install ANY tune to increase power over stock without an IC (and CP, implicitly required). That basically means MHD stage 2 or BM3 stage 1 with IC+CP, as you said. And yes, MHD stage 2 does say DP or IC for stage 2, and this was confirmed with them via email, its either or. However once again, tuning without an IC just doesnt make sense, even if you have the DP.

2. I run MHD and i have zero complaints. To be honest as someone who reads hundreds/thousands of posts, my experience is just that the BM3 crowd is far more vocal about BM3. MHD users just use it and are less vocal, and they may be fewer in numbers, so you just dont hear about it as much. As an MHD user i have never had a single issue. You are not leaving anything on the table by going MHD with a stock fuel system PWG car. If you were EWG going high ethanol/upgraded turbo, BM3's OTS maps would have a higher power ceiling, but for your application, just pick whichever one you like better. Based on your description, MHD does sound like a good fit.

[rlesko]

Originally Posted by johnung

Seems like you are overthinking it. Just pick one and enjoy the ride.

guilty as charged

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

1. Your summary of the tune stages is pretty much on point. MHD does stages more incrementally as you add more hardware mods, and MHD stage 2 is similar to BM3 stage 1 in terms of power levels. As i always universally recommend, i would not install ANY tune to increase power over stock without an IC (and CP, implicitly required). That basically means MHD stage 2 or BM3 stage 1 with IC+CP, as you said. And yes, MHD stage 2 does say DP or IC for stage 2, and this was confirmed with them via email, its either or. However once again, tuning without an IC just doesnt make sense, even if you have the DP.

2. I run MHD and i have zero complaints. To be honest as someone who reads hundreds/thousands of posts, my experience is just that the BM3 crowd is far more vocal about BM3. MHD users just use it and are less vocal, and they may be fewer in numbers, so you just dont hear about it as much. As an MHD user i have never had a single issue. You are not leaving anything on the table by going MHD with a stock fuel system PWG car. If you were EWG going high ethanol/upgraded turbo, BM3's OTS maps would have a higher power ceiling, but for your application, just pick whichever one you like better. Based on your description, MHD does sound like a good fit.

thanks for the insight and response!