[boilerdan33]

I'm looking for an independent point of view on this. The situation ended up with me giving my brother a check for $5000 and not knowing when (or if) I'll talk to him again.

I am a track junkie and like to drive my car on the track at high speeds. Last week, when I was coming home from the shop, I hit a trench I thought was full, and blew out the tire and dented the rim. I took it to the Porsche shop where I have known the mechanic for 15 years (next door the BMW shop who had done the work). He asked a friend, and I wound up putting borrowed wheels on the car.

I work as a paramedic and was exhausted from sleeping 3 hours while working a 24 hour shift on a West Side ghetto rig in Chicago. I asked my 18 year old niece who has been in two accidents to drive my car in the rain to Joliet from Chicago to get a new wheel put on it, (about 1 hour drive around noon) so I could go racing that evening. She said yes, and I said I'd give her $10 an hour for her troubles.

She was coming off the interstate and was looking at the GPS and rear-ended the car in front of her. She called me and told me about it at the accident site. My BMW 335i needs a new bumper cover, grill, hood, and one headlight. It will cost $3900 to repair and my deductible is $1000.

IF my deductible was $500 AND I was 50% resposible for letting my 18 y/o neice drive my expensive german sports sedan, I figure my neice should pay me $250 dollars. She has a job, and is going to community college. I thought $50 a month for 4 months (minus her pay) would be sufficient. My objective was for her to take responsibility for her actions. SHE was driving the car, and SHE wasn't paying attention. (What if she had run down and a new mother and her baby? Would it also be my fault?) My brother originally thought this was acceptable.

Today I talked to my neice and explain my opinion. She disagrees. She says because she was doing me a favor, she is not responible for any of the damage, and should not have to pay me anything. Tonight my brother comes over and is upset. He says I shouldn't be making a big deal. That I shouldn't let money come between family. I told him it's not about money, it's about being an adult and being responsible. (She harps on this. She has a tatoo, and intitally wanted to work instead of going to my wedding. In both cases, she wanted to be able to make her own decisions, to be treated as an adult.)

I disagree and state that she is not behaving responsibly. I have already offered to pay for her school books for last semster and next semster to help her through her education. (Probably $500 a semester). This doesn't seem to mean anything to either of them. (I don't want her to be in a hole financially. I love my neice and want her to do well in life.) My brother says both my wife and I are to wrapped up in money and asks me for $5000 for helping me rehab my house over the last few years. He says he will then be "done" with me and my wife. I give him the check and tell him it is he who asked for this seperation, not me. I add it is not my fault he has not raised a daughter to act responsibly.

I should add my brother was my best man at my wedding last year, and that we have been through hell and high water together. I love him, although he often drives me nuts. We have completely different personalities.

Opinions?
__________________

[O-cha]

you're both idiots and I want my 5 minutes back.

[Nexlevmm]

im seriously sorry to hear that man. I dont give out opinions on stuff like this because i dont know the situation and wouldnt want to give you the wrong advice.

On a side note, IF it were ME...i would take that 250 out of the 5k i owed someone. and then its done.

[Inspired]

So you are basically asking her to pay $250? That is more than fair however it seems like she doesn't want to pay. If I was in your situation I would probably just let it go. Since it isn't a lot of money to begin with. Although I understand your perspective as her being a adult and should be responsible for her actions.

However, it seems like your brother do not actually care about you but instead of your money. I would be cautious. Just my $.02.

[MontegoblueE92]

If your brother ended things like that, it's not your fault. If your neice did not have the means to pay a full $500, that's understandable. I was in the same situation last year, though not quite as tight. But as a college student, I can say dropping 500 unexpected dollars up front is a bit of strain, but the insurance hike is where the real money issue is.

In reality, she should have paid the full deductible. You offered to negotiate and meet halfway, and she rejected that so she wouldn't have to take responsibility. Are you halving her ticket for causing an accident? No. If I were you, when your brother demanded money for his help, I would've told him to stick it. Your deductible plus the amount you're going to lose in car value due to the wreck would probably make the two of you break even. I think you were the bigger man, and I would wait for him to make the first move.

[ideliver]

She was working for you and driving the "company car"...as such the company pays 100%...

when I have my employees run errands for me in my car....if they wreck...I pay

[bigslickak]

You asked her to drive the car knowing full well her past accident history..and the weather situation. It was a risk you took.

Give me a break man, you're going to let this ruin your relationship with your brother and his family? For $250 and some over-rationalized moral code you are trying to use to justify your stance this situation? She wasn't driving drunk or speeding. Get over it.

[Year's_End]

Originally Posted by O-cha

you're both idiots and I want my 5 minutes back.

stfu

[Comet]

you're not her father and shouldn't put that much effort into teaching her responsibility or whatever.. it's your brother's

drop it, but dont trust her again

[MontegoblueE92]

Originally Posted by bigslickak

You asked her to drive the car knowing full well her past accident history..and the weather situation. It was a risk you took.

Give me a break man, you're going to let this ruin your relationship with your brother and his family? For $250 and some over-rationalized moral code you are trying to use to justify your stance this situation? She wasn't driving drunk or speeding. Get over it.

His brother asked for $5000 back. I'm betting he hadn't mentioned payment while he was helping him for the past few years with the house. That's a D-bag move no matter which way you cut it. It's not the OPs fault.

[kyoko]

Don't even know the entire situation but did your brother know you asked her to drive your car? Perhaps he might have been upset that you knew her driving record and the weather conditions and asked her to drive your car to get the wheels fixed so you can go racing after your shift... Perhaps you are lucky that she didn't get into a bigger accident which might need serious medical attention. If that's the case then who's going to pay?

At any rate, I think iDeliver said it best... You basically hired your niece to do a job for you in the "company" car. Something happened, you, as the company owner, needs to pay up. Perhaps next time you will take more responsibility in choosing your company driver...

And all this drama over $250... If you and your brother really are that tight, then this should be a quick fix for the both of you.... I can't imagine my bro and I fighting over this small amount...

[kyoko]

Originally Posted by MontegoblueE92

His brother asked for $5000 back. I'm betting he hadn't mentioned payment while he was helping him for the past few years with the house. That's a D-bag move no matter which way you cut it. It's not the OPs fault.

Asking for 5k back for helping around the house and getting into an accident are two completely different instances and should not be mixed together. This is simply about OP asking his niece to fix his car. Gets into an accident, and OP wants niece to pay $250 to cover costs.

Lets put it another way... If you and a friend are going on a road trip (your car)... and you are taking turns driving different legs. When your friend is driving, your car breaks down... Who foots the bill? You or your friend?

[jhv]

Originally Posted by O-cha

you're both idiots and I want my 5 minutes back.

youre one of the biggest jackasses on this board. keep your irrelevant, unnecessary comments to yourself. also, if that took you 5 minutes to read, you need to start hooked on phonics or some shit asap.

to the OP: i say you let it go. some people are exceptionally hard to reason with. unfortunately, family is usually the hardest to deal with when it comes to making compromises.

[whyrms]

I thought OP made it pretty clear that it's not about the money. He doesn't care about the 250 since he's spotting his niece 500 for books every semester anyway. What the OP is saying is that should he end the relationship between his brother just because his brother doesn't want to teach his kid.

Well OP this is how I see it. You made a suggestion and you thought it was reasonable. But your brother doesn't seem to share your point of view. This made you upset that he can't see your point and that he's making you the bad guy in this situation. Sorry to hand it to you, but you're partially at fault here. Your fault is not that you want your niece to be responsible. Your fault is that you let your niece (who has been in two car accidents) to drive your car in the rain so that you can go racing later (that's a disaster waiting to happen). So yes, I understand that you want to teach her a lesson about being responsible, but maybe some other time? I think for this particular incident, you should have been more concern about her well being, and how the accident might have affected her. If you truly care for your niece you would just let this one slide; there are plenty of other opportunity to teach her about responsibility later on. Yes your brother is being a bit of a drama queen for wanting to separate over this matter, but if you really love him, then be a better man, back off, cool off, and try again some other times.

P.S. take my advise with a grain of salt, because if you think that your brother and niece is not worth the hassle then just say adios and be done with it.

[deletedelete]

Even if the niece was doing you a favor, she still has to take responsibility for the accident which she caused. There is no excuse to hit somebody from behind.

If this were me, Id pay her the money I owe her for the favor and ask her to pay the full amount for the damage. $250 is completely reasonable.

[samwoo2go]

In this old Chinese saying "every family has a hard to read book" or some shit like that.

I can't give my opinion because all I have is your side of the story. Family shit like this can be bend so differently when told by different sides and not to mention past family shit to get in the mix, which sounds like your case. The reason family and $ shouldn't mix is because its impossible to keep a clean book with all the favors, lending, helping, and shit.

To put it objectively, yes the accident is her fault because she rear ended.
Yes your an idiot to let a 18 yr old girl drive your 300hp car on a rainy day to a place she never been b4 so far away.

Let me tell you what happened alright because this shit sounds just like my family feuds.
Your niece crash your shit, you are pissed because you should be. You are overly conservative with all your teach the world moral ethic procedures (but honestly I think that comes 2nd to your desire to make her feel some pain too because you are so pissed) and wants to teach her a lesson. So now you charge her.
From what you wrote so far, I think I can assume these things to be true (correct me if I am wrong)
you are very close to your brother.
your family have more money than your brothers family.
your brothers wife don't get along with your family and maybe vice versa as well.

So you now want to charge your niece for whatever motive, it doesn't matter. But your brother initially agrees because you're family and its not alot of money, and he is a dude, so hes like "fuck it watever dude lets have a beer." Here is what happened afterwards, your niece fucking flips out, she obviously takes money very seriously because she wanted to skip your wedding for work (or it could just be that she don't like you that much). She says fuck no, im not paying him, and guess what, MOM gets the complain. So your brothers wife fucking flips out on your brother because she already don't like you guys and now you want to charge them for doing you a favor (this is the version of story that she hears from her daughter)? So after like a week of bitching, complaining, examples, and "remember when you fixed his house and not get paid?" talks from the WIFE AND HIS DAUGHTER...2 FEMALES blah blah blah wah wah wah all fucking week. Your brother finally snaps and be like ya, he didn't want to pay me shit when I fucking hooked him up, and all of a sudden he wants to get all accountant on me for fucking $250? FUCK THAT. boom boom bang, he decides to ask you for what you owe him for the house work if you are going to ask him for deductible.

So in the end, know this. You guys will make up eventually, this shit is not that big, BUT, you will never see that 5 large again, because he will not give it to you, and you will not ask, because its awkward and brings up shit you guys will try to put behind.

This is the end result of this entire ordeal...
1) your ride will forever be damaged goods.
2) your out $1000 on insurance deductible.
3) you missed your track day anyway.
4) your out $5000 to your brother.
5) your niece will grow up telling all her friends about your "shadyness"
6) your brothers wife will hate your family even more.
7) you and your brother will eventually make up, but shit will just never be the same.

Not saying if you are right or wrong, but if you just didn't ask her to pay, you would only have problems 1-3.

To put myself in your situation. If I wrecked my aunts car (I borrow her sl500 and Q5 alot) she would never ask me for anything. I dunno, maybe im Asian but she just will not, 1 because, she just won't and 2. she knows I won't pay her shit even she asked so she would save herself the trouble. and 3. because she is single, i do all the "man" work around the house when she needs help so shes appreciative of my services.

just my .02 dont flame me dude

[maswastage]

It sounds like you're in the hole here. Call him back and apologize, and tell him that he's right about money not coming between family. At the same time, though, you need to stop doing him favors, especially of the monetary variety. If you're lucky, he'll come to his senses, he'll apologize in return, and maybe he'll even pay you back.

[yomama69]

You can't fault your niece because you were the one to choose a $500 dollar deductible, not a $0 deductible. You asked her to do you a favor because you wanted to be able to track your car that evening. Accidents happen. She was looking at the GPS because she didn't know where she was going.

[txusa03]

I don't agree with op, you approached your niece to help you drive your car. Your niece did not come to you and offer to drive your car. Forget about responsibility and just let it go and the fact that you initiated the situation.

You have the ultimate control over who gets to drive your car, you could have picked your wife, your brother, your dad, your mistress,...The point is you made a bad decision so live and learn and forget about it, they are family...you will not know how important family is until you loose them!!!

[quagmire]

Originally Posted by kyoko

Lets put it another way... If you and a friend are going on a road trip (your car)... and you are taking turns driving different legs. When your friend is driving, your car breaks down... Who foots the bill? You or your friend?

That is not a good comparison. The friend isn't responsible for the car breaking down. But, the niece is responsible for crashing the car.

Frankly, I don't know what to do in this situation. I say let it go, but stop helping out with her books. You tried to be nice, but you get stonewalled by them. Not worth it even if they are family.

[Hawkeye]

Since you were going to pay her $10 an hour you should have made her pay $500 less the time she spent driving/filing a police report/etc. and that would have been fair IMO.

As far as cutting your brother a check, unless you told him you would pay him before he helped that is obsurd. I would never have given him a check, I help my family do work on their house all the time and don't expect anything in return. It is what family is there for.

I think your brother is in the wrong and his little girl needs to do some serious growing up. Lastly, why would you let someone that has been in 2 accidents drive your car?

[Hawkeye]

Originally Posted by kyoko

Lets put it another way... If you and a friend are going on a road trip (your car)... and you are taking turns driving different legs. When your friend is driving, your car breaks down... Who foots the bill? You or your friend?

Funny you ask this. Before I had my BMW my friends and I drove to South Padre and took turns. My friend hit a possum while he was driving and paid me the full deductible. I would have been okay with half the deductible (since you could have easily been driving their car instead).

How about look at it this way. If he had asked he to drive there in her car to pick up the new tire and she got in a wreck in her car, should he have to pay her deductible (or half of it)?