[Twins]

Hello Everyone. We are returning our 128 convert. off lease and are moving up to a 2013 335i convertible which has to be ordered in one of the last allocations this dealer claims he has for that model.

I will get the specifics of the lease deal but in general terms with rebates and incentives we are at about invoice on this car. I realize there is probably another $2500 to invoice (the dealer gave up about $2000 and the incentives bring it down to invoice so that is not out of the dealers profit or pocket) but I am happy with the deal and the dealer. Salesmen spent 5 hours with us (test drove the 328, 335 and the 6 series) - something I have not had someone do in about - well, ever frankly.

We built a car that stickers at just over $63,000. The capitalized cost is approximately $58,000 with monthly payments (tax is NOT in these payments) of $627 x 36 months 10,000 miles per year. NO capital cost reduction.

I am coming in with the sales tax and the ridiculous $725 acquisition fee. In addition, the dealer is taking $500 off of the money due (this is post sales tax so it is more like $450 off) so that makes us a little closer to invoice and they threw in a $100 voucher to be used in the parts department etc. (floor mats come to mind here).

At this price they are guaranteeing the numbers regardless of when the car comes in and what programs might expire (the drive event right now ends 10/31 and our car might not squeeze in by then).

Based on the lease numbers I see posted here it seems like we are in the ballpark at that cap cost and sticker price. Opinions are of course welcome and I will get you more data. One other question: If other incentives come to play in October/November it should be no skin off the dealers hide to redo the lease if it is to our advantage. What I am curious about is that as time goes on do the factor numbers, residual numbers etc. get "worse" for a car that is now older than it was when we made the deal and therefore we should not expect any better leasing deal on this car absent a higher rebate?

[JesseS]

Originally Posted by Twins

Hello Everyone. We are returning our 128 convert. off lease and are moving up to a 2013 335i convertible which has to be ordered in one of the last allocations this dealer claims he has for that model.

I will get the specifics of the lease deal but in general terms with rebates and incentives we are at about invoice on this car. I realize there is probably another $2500 to invoice (the dealer gave up about $2000 and the incentives bring it down to invoice so that is not out of the dealers profit or pocket) but I am happy with the deal and the dealer. Salesmen spent 5 hours with us (test drove the 328, 335 and the 6 series) - something I have not had someone do in about - well, ever frankly.

We built a car that stickers at just over $63,000. The capitalized cost is approximately $58,000 with monthly payments (tax is NOT in these payments) of $627 x 36 months 10,000 miles per year. NO capital cost reduction.

I am coming in with the sales tax and the ridiculous $725 acquisition fee. In addition, the dealer is taking $500 off of the money due (this is post sales tax so it is more like $450 off) so that makes us a little closer to invoice and they threw in a $100 voucher to be used in the parts department etc. (floor mats come to mind here).

At this price they are guaranteeing the numbers regardless of when the car comes in and what programs might expire (the drive event right now ends 10/31 and our car might not squeeze in by then).

Based on the lease numbers I see posted here it seems like we are in the ballpark at that cap cost and sticker price. Opinions are of course welcome and I will get you more data. One other question: If other incentives come to play in October/November it should be no skin off the dealers hide to redo the lease if it is to our advantage. What I am curious about is that as time goes on do the factor numbers, residual numbers etc. get "worse" for a car that is now older than it was when we made the deal and therefore we should not expect any better leasing deal on this car absent a higher rebate?

The numbers don't change based on the relative age of the car inside the same MY. BMW sets the numbers based on a whole bunch different factors such as current prime, but they also tweak them based on what's selliing/leasing well, early adopters, and overall reported inventory levels (so that previous MY cars don't sit as long). They change each month, but generally get better for the previous MY as the new MY starts to roll out.


It can be "skin off the dealer's hide" in that they will want to use the incentives to make more money, but generally if you negotiate the price before incentives then there technically shouldn't be a problem. What they like to do, as you've noticed, is use incentives as "discounts" because this nets them more on cars.

Also, a dealer will make money selling/leasing a car at invoice, although it may not be much. The invoice pricing isn't what the dealer is actually paying for the car, although they try to make you think that.

[Twins]

Originally Posted by JesseS

The numbers don't change based on the relative age of the car inside the same MY. BMW sets the numbers based on a whole bunch different factors such as current prime, but they also tweak them based on what's selliing/leasing well, early adopters, and overall reported inventory levels (so that previous MY cars don't sit as long). They change each month, but generally get better for the previous MY as the new MY starts to roll out.


It can be "skin off the dealer's hide" in that they will want to use the incentives to make more money, but generally if you negotiate the price before incentives then there technically shouldn't be a problem. What they like to do, as you've noticed, is use incentives as "discounts" because this nets them more on cars.

Also, a dealer will make money selling/leasing a car at invoice, although it may not be much. The invoice pricing isn't what the dealer is actually paying for the car, although they try to make you think that.

That is interesting about the leasing factors. I'll keep it in mind.
I do know about dealer pricing and holdbacks etc. as I was in the industry many years ago. Normally, I will pay a little over invoice on a car depending on the model. I did pay close to sticker on a car this year but that was a Boss 302. Very happy with that car.
In this case, I do believe he has plenty of room in there but I am happy with the deal as long as I don't see monthly payment numbers significantly less for the same equipped car. If he was ground down to invoice and then the incentives applied that payment would probably drop another $20 a month at least. I do not believe he was going that low but I could have tried harder I suppose.
I think we are in the ballpark. If better incentives come out I will get them applied. He has his profit built in already in the deal we have and it is more than generous. There are some "rebates" a dealer can hide (dealer incentives) but it is a lot harder to glom a customer incentive.
Thanks for the information. I'm looking forward to this car. We were going to wait for a 4 and probably should have if it is roomier as we could use the space but our car goes back in November and the wife wanted to be in something. The convertibles are probably not in until early next year.

[JesseS]

Originally Posted by Twins

That is interesting about the leasing factors. I'll keep it in mind.
I do know about dealer pricing and holdbacks etc. as I was in the industry many years ago. Normally, I will pay a little over invoice on a car depending on the model. I did pay close to sticker on a car this year but that was a Boss 302. Very happy with that car.
In this case, I do believe he has plenty of room in there but I am happy with the deal as long as I don't see monthly payment numbers significantly less for the same equipped car. If he was ground down to invoice and then the incentives applied that payment would probably drop another $20 a month at least. I do not believe he was going that low but I could have tried harder I suppose.
I think we are in the ballpark. If better incentives come out I will get them applied. He has his profit built in already in the deal we have and it is more than generous. There are some "rebates" a dealer can hide (dealer incentives) but it is a lot harder to glom a customer incentive.
Thanks for the information. I'm looking forward to this car. We were going to wait for a 4 and probably should have if it is roomier as we could use the space but our car goes back in November and the wife wanted to be in something. The convertibles are probably not in until early next year.

If you're happy with the deal, honestly, that matters a lot more than if you got the absolutely perfect deal.

I should know, I ordered a new 2014 for lease in mid-July, and while I did get a really good deal on the car price w/out incentives, I did it knowing full well that the incentives and financing would be much better on a 2013. I'm a new car junkie, so I get one every two-three years. If I viewed this as a long-term financial investment, honestly, I wouldn't be leasing a bmw (not knocking bmw here, but it is what it is).

[Twins]

Originally Posted by JesseS

If you're happy with the deal, honestly, that matters a lot more than if you got the absolutely perfect deal.

I should know, I ordered a new 2014 for lease in mid-July, and while I did get a really good deal on the car price w/out incentives, I did it knowing full well that the incentives and financing would be much better on a 2013. I'm a new car junkie, so I get one every two-three years. If I viewed this as a long-term financial investment, honestly, I wouldn't be leasing a bmw (not knocking bmw here, but it is what it is).

I'm with you on that. Around here, no matter how well you take care of your car they take a beating and after a few years they are showing their age. I like owning at least one or two of my vehicles but in the BMW price range leasing seems like a better option.
I don't like getting slammed on price but I am willing to pay for professionalism and respectful treatment. I know what salesmen make and if the salesman is not going to do any work than I am not going to cry for him if I get a deal at invoice. For example I had to buy a mini van. Did my research. Walked into a dealer and offered 200 over invoice. Dealer said how's about 400 over? We settled on 300. and that was it. Five minutes of work. Happy customer. Happy salesman. He made a few bucks for a very easy deal. By the way, another a$$hole salesman was trying to get list on this minivan. Must think they are collectible!
The BMW salesman spent plenty of time with us making sure we got what we wanted. I'm willing to pay for that.
I may be sorry I did not wait for a 4 series but this is my wife's car. I was trying to steer her to an M3 they had but it was not to be .... She wants the drop top. We drove the 6 series but it was too much car for her.