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      02-28-2014, 10:28 AM   #1
Adel-75
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BMW F30 316 I 04/2013 engine N13 , Turbo get too red and hot

Dear Mates ,

please can someone help me with this issue , I am surprised and scared I have my car BMW F30 316 I 04/2013 engine N13

when I look on my engine I found that the car turbo is getting too red and hot which scare me a lot .

I ve took the car to the BMW dealer : they change Turbo , Intercooler , Lambda sonde and nothing changes it still the same issue !

please advise what should I do ?

with kind regards

Adel
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      02-28-2014, 12:57 PM   #2
vader1
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Go easy on the gas pedal. You are constantly spooling the turbo in hot Tunisian weather and not giving it a chance to cool. Turbos are meant to be used in short bursts and not continuously. It looks like you always have your foot to the floor. It is normal to see them red hot in race cars, but most people don't street drive them like that.

But you might want to look into a larger oil cooler if you are going to drive it hard.

Are you driving 140 mph through the desert or something or is this just coming from casual driving?

Last edited by vader1; 02-28-2014 at 02:16 PM..
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      02-28-2014, 03:06 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vader1 View Post
Go easy on the gas pedal. You are constantly spooling the turbo in hot Tunisian weather and not giving it a chance to cool. Turbos are meant to be used in short bursts and not continuously. It looks like you always have your foot to the floor. It is normal to see them red hot in race cars, but most people don't street drive them like that.

But you might want to look into a larger oil cooler if you are going to drive it hard.

Are you driving 140 mph through the desert or something or is this just coming from casual driving?
it is winter now here in Tunisia , weather is 9 degree C ...

no desert my friend , the desert is 700 km away , I am in Tunis the capital
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      02-28-2014, 03:21 PM   #4
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That's pretty cool if you ask me. I wouldn't want it, but it is cool..LOL..
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      02-28-2014, 03:30 PM   #5
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I know this adds no value to this post, but kind of interesting that the turbo/exhaust is on the other side of the engine compared to the N20/26 & N54/55...
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      02-28-2014, 04:07 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adel-75 View Post
it is winter now here in Tunisia , weather is 9 degree C ...

no desert my friend , the desert is 700 km away , I am in Tunis the capital
Well then the only things that come to mind are clogged cat, watsegate issue, clogged oil or water lines that cool the turbo.

The last part is what I would suspect most. If they replaced the turbo, then you'd have a brand new wastegate. If the cat was clogged you would probably have knock and a big loss of power. If the car runs normally and the turbo is not cooling the cooling lines to the turbo are not working correctly and probably clogged somehow. It does not neccesarily have to be in the lines themselves as well, it could be a coolant/oil passage in the engine itself. I don't know how coolant and oil are routed to the turbo in your particular car.

Let the dealer know. Good luck.
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      02-28-2014, 05:51 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adel-75 View Post
Dear Mates ,

please can someone help me with this issue , I am surprised and scared I have my car BMW F30 316 I 04/2013 engine N13

when I look on my engine I found that the car turbo is getting too red and hot which scare me a lot .

I ve took the car to the BMW dealer : they change Turbo , Intercooler , Lambda sonde and nothing changes it still the same issue !

please advise what should I do ?

with kind regards

Adel
At what rpm you were revving, you have to put in mind that happens in every car you go full throttle under severe stress but in your engine case the turbo is up there because it's a mini engine, they have this cover with precaution, if you looked at the 328i dyno you will see the downpipe glowing red hot in my opinion that's completely normal, If you are worried about the heat exposure to hood, other components all you can do is buy turbo wrap, I have wrapped the dp and full exhaust and noticed %50 less heat exposure on hot day with hard driving.
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      03-01-2014, 02:55 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rustyminded View Post
At what rpm you were revving, you have to put in mind that happens in every car you go full throttle under severe stress but in your engine case the turbo is up there because it's a mini engine, they have this cover with precaution, if you looked at the 328i dyno you will see the downpipe glowing red hot in my opinion that's completely normal, If you are worried about the heat exposure to hood, other components all you can do is buy turbo wrap, I have wrapped the dp and full exhaust and noticed %50 less heat exposure on hot day with hard driving.
Hello

Thanks for ur reply it seems to be logic , I am driving on high rpm , speed 200km/h , but this also happen if I drive it normally for a ceratin time 30 mn or more and even when I stop it get time to come from red to a glowing orange !

excuse me if you can help , what is an Turbo Wrap ? were can I get that ?

result that u get are very nice , 50% less ...

regards

Adel
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      03-01-2014, 03:21 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rustyminded View Post
At what rpm you were revving, you have to put in mind that happens in every car you go full throttle under severe stress but in your engine case the turbo is up there because it's a mini engine, they have this cover with precaution, if you looked at the 328i dyno you will see the downpipe glowing red hot in my opinion that's completely normal, If you are worried about the heat exposure to hood, other components all you can do is buy turbo wrap, I have wrapped the dp and full exhaust and noticed %50 less heat exposure on hot day with hard driving.
Hello

I have think about ur statement : I think if I will use the Turbo Wrap , I will get more heat inside my tubes and this will be more disaster for me .

in fact my cat get red and hot before my Turbo ! that is mean the heat is coming from the cat , the cat have been changed by the dealer ....only less than 1000 km with the new cat and it stay the same issue

regards


Adel
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      03-01-2014, 09:28 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adel-75 View Post
Hello

I have think about ur statement : I think if I will use the Turbo Wrap , I will get more heat inside my tubes and this will be more disaster for me .

in fact my cat get red and hot before my Turbo ! that is mean the heat is coming from the cat , the cat have been changed by the dealer ....only less than 1000 km with the new cat and it stay the same issue

regards


Adel
well wrap is only used to keep the heat away from other components, you have a point if you are worried about the too much heat wrap will not cool down faster it keep the heat inside to protect and keep the engine temperature lower.. in fact with wrap the turbo, cat ect. might not cool faster but it's only for protection to other components because I see the turbo is way up by all the plastics

So far I haven't had any problems with the wrap (downpipe and exhaust), If it was my car I would wrap it to protect the other parts and wouldn't worry about the glowing because they were meant to glow on severe stress.. anyway it's up to you
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      03-01-2014, 09:57 AM   #11
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Do you do a couple of km's of cooling down? Or do you blast through downtown Tunis at 200 km/u and 6500 rpm all day and just shut it off immediately?
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      03-01-2014, 10:23 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommy_hf View Post
Do you do a couple of km's of cooling down? Or do you blast through downtown Tunis at 200 km/u and 6500 rpm all day and just shut it off immediately?
Good question
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      03-01-2014, 12:28 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommy_hf View Post
Do you do a couple of km's of cooling down? Or do you blast through downtown Tunis at 200 km/u and 6500 rpm all day and just shut it off immediately?
Hello ,

no ,Typicly when I do let s say 10 km to15 km boost activated and high rpm , speed between 120 km/h to 200 km /h

I get it like in the photo : too red and hot turbo , when I just stop and let the engine at idle : it need some time to get back to an orange color ....

guys , I want to just emphasize some thing : weather now is 9 degree C in the morning and arround 20 max at midday , in the summer in Tunis it can reach 40 degree c , So if it is the case my car will go ashes if I drive it in a sport mode , is this a BMW or a Citroen that I am using !

regards

Adel
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      03-01-2014, 01:04 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rustyminded View Post
Good question
Hello ,

no ,Typicly when I do let s say 10 km to15 km boost activated and high rpm , speed between 120 km/h to 200 km /h

I get it like in the photo : too red and hot turbo , when I just stop and let the engine at idle : it need some time to get back to an orange color ....

guys , I want to just emphasize some thing : weather now is 9 degree C in the morning and arround 20 max at midday , in the summer in Tunis it can reach 40 degree c , So if it is the case my car will go ashes if I drive it in a sport mode , is this a BMW or a Citroen that I am using !

regards

Adel
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      03-01-2014, 02:02 PM   #15
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Umm you're driving a BMW with an engine that's also in a citroen ;-) That said, not a problem with that. The mini Cooper S has the same engine with different camshafts(as well as the 320i efficient dynamics and 118i F20). It's a good engine and far from stressed. Even the WTCC BMW's are based on these N18 1.6 turbocharged engines, pushing over 300 hp. The car needs a couple of minutes after spirited runs to cool down to decent temperatures. Just about any turbocharged engine needs that time, glowing red hot turbo and downpipe is not really something really worrying unless it's still like that 5 minutes after driving. Any turbo engined car needs to have some cooling down time, basicly driving slow and low boost for that last couple of km's.
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      03-01-2014, 02:06 PM   #16
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Come to think of it, back in the old days you needed a turbo timer to prevent it from going up in smoke :-)
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      03-01-2014, 02:38 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommy_hf View Post
Come to think of it, back in the old days you needed a turbo timer to prevent it from going up in smoke :-)
Hello ,

Thank u for answering , it need about 10 minute to come to the orange color !

I never switch off the engine directly , I let idle for 5 minute ...

if the dealer have change for me all this parts : intercoler + turbo + catlyser , I think it is not looking normal in his eyes !

by the way also doing a search on the net for this issue , I havent found 1 claim even for other car manufact with Prince engine !

reagards

Adel
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      03-01-2014, 02:39 PM   #18
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I agree with what Tommy_hf said, I always give my car about a 1-2 min for cold start then drive it gently till it reaches the optimum temperature, then I give it a little gas to about 2.5-3.5 rpm for a while just to get the car warmed up, you can't just go flat out after a driving slowly even if it's at operating temperature, it's not good and you can't just shut your engine after hard driving. warming up from a cold start can take 15-20 min just let it warm up right not idle of course and yea it's a mini cooper based engine..
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      03-01-2014, 04:26 PM   #19
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The Prince engine started out as an engine in cooperation with PSA which was mounted in cars like citroen DS3 as well as the R56 mini cooper S. In MINI guise it was named the N14 engine. This engine did have a couple of problems:
1. timing chain tensioner which could lead to the death rattle (fixed in 2012)
2. clogged oil feed on turbo (fixed by adding heat shield)
3. cracked piston cylinder 4 which was caused by a badly designed crank case ventilation which dumped the oily fumes right on top of the 4th cylinder altering it's mixture and could cause it to burn out. This could be fixed by just a simple oil catch tank.

The turbo itself isn't a prone to fail item.


In 2011 BMW redesigned the engine and renamed it N18 for the MINI and N13 for BMW applications.
These had redesigned pistons, the new timing chain tensioner assembly, newly designed baffled valve cover to cater for crank case ventilation as well as improvements on oild feeds and heat shielding. These have proven to be virtually bomb proof.

It's a good engine with tuning potential. It's well known that they push 220-230 hp on the stock turbo, 260-270 with the GT28 Garrett and there are even 300+ hp applications. You can basicly take a look at possibilities of mini cooper S.

The N13 114i and 116i/316i have down tuned camshafts.
N13 engine in the 118i, 320i efficient dynamics edition and 520i efficient dynamics edition have the same hardware(pistons, head, valves, camshafts) as the cooper S engine. The JCW mini engine differs in that they have different pistons.
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      03-02-2014, 05:05 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommy_hf View Post
The Prince engine started out as an engine in cooperation with PSA which was mounted in cars like citroen DS3 as well as the R56 mini cooper S. In MINI guise it was named the N14 engine. This engine did have a couple of problems:
1. timing chain tensioner which could lead to the death rattle (fixed in 2012)
2. clogged oil feed on turbo (fixed by adding heat shield)
3. cracked piston cylinder 4 which was caused by a badly designed crank case ventilation which dumped the oily fumes right on top of the 4th cylinder altering it's mixture and could cause it to burn out. This could be fixed by just a simple oil catch tank.

The turbo itself isn't a prone to fail item.

ok Thank u for answering ,

do u mean that I can tune this engine by installing another Turbo


In 2011 BMW redesigned the engine and renamed it N18 for the MINI and N13 for BMW applications.
These had redesigned pistons, the new timing chain tensioner assembly, newly designed baffled valve cover to cater for crank case ventilation as well as improvements on oild feeds and heat shielding. These have proven to be virtually bomb proof.

It's a good engine with tuning potential. It's well known that they push 220-230 hp on the stock turbo, 260-270 with the GT28 Garrett and there are even 300+ hp applications. You can basicly take a look at possibilities of mini cooper S.

The N13 114i and 116i/316i have down tuned camshafts.
N13 engine in the 118i, 320i efficient dynamics edition and 520i efficient dynamics edition have the same hardware(pistons, head, valves, camshafts) as the cooper S engine. The JCW mini engine differs in that they have different pistons.
Thank you for answering ,

do u mean that I can Tune my 316 i by replacing my actual Turbo with a GT28 Garrett turbo which can give me more HP ? how much ?

if yes do I need to tune something elese with the Turbo ,THE ECU ? or it can be done alone


with kind regards

Adel
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      03-02-2014, 01:13 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adel-75 View Post
Hello

Thanks for ur reply it seems to be logic , I am driving on high rpm , speed 200km/h , but this also happen if I drive it normally for a ceratin time 30 mn or more and even when I stop it get time to come from red to a glowing orange !


Adel
So cruising at 124 mph in a 1.6 liter? Now I get why it is glowing red hot.
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      03-02-2014, 04:51 PM   #22
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http://www.ac-schnitzer.de/shop/bmw_...teigerung3.htm
For you 316i, you're starting out with 136 hp and just with this mapping from ac-schnitzer you get 204 hp with full factory like engine/gearbox warranty through ac-schnitzer.

The problem is cracking the ECU, to get it to accept larger turbo's and other hardware, you need a tuner with a piggyback ECU that's truly free programmable and tuned to your hardware.
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