[Goneinsixtyseconds]

Originally Posted by OneExtra

I am pleased that students have to pay for University and if they leave in debt then that's a life lesson for free.... Everything in life has a cost.

My wife went to University and left without debt, she worked in a supermarket and in the holidays to cover her fees.

I am not sure if life is harder for kids now than in the past or not, ultimately if a person has a strong work ethic and want to succeed they will.

Personally I did not go to University and it did not hold me back, but then i did not want to go as I believed I was not good enough.

If you're not sure, do some research, I have.

Getting on the property ladder is tougher, evidenced by average age of first time buyers, increased size of deposit required and increased ratio of average salary to average house price. Jobs harder to come by, evidenced by higher levels of unemployment in the young and by people being forced to work into their 70's. This later retirement age filters right through the employment market with less jobs ultimately becoming available to the young.

I'm not sure when your wife went to university, but without support it is now impossible to not get in debt. The average cost for a year at uni is £22k, fees plus living cost. After tax, even before tax, you cannot earn nearly that with evening and holiday jobs.

[Goneinsixtyseconds]

Originally Posted by teaston

Ok I didn't know you meant keeping the money secret unless they need it, that is a bit different.

They don't need to start paying back the student loan until they're earning over £21k though, and even then it's only 9% of the amount above £21k, so even if they earn £25k it's only £360 a year so not really an inconvenience at all. Plus there's help to buy scheme so that effectively halves the buying house cost.

Do you think that'll still be the same in 18 years? Look at the difference between now and 18 years ago?

[teaston]

Originally Posted by Alex440

Do you think that'll still be the same in 18 years? Look at the difference between now and 18 years ago?

Fuck knows, I don't really want to think that far ahead, there's plenty of time to enjoy life before then.

[OneExtra]

Originally Posted by teaston

Fuck knows, I don't really want to think that far ahead, there's plenty of time to enjoy life before then.

It's late time for bed maybe

[OneExtra]

Originally Posted by Alex440

If you're not sure, do some research, I have.

Getting on the property ladder is tougher, evidenced by average age of first time buyers, increased size of deposit required and increased ratio of average salary to average house price. Jobs harder to come by, evidenced by higher levels of unemployment in the young and by people being forced to work into their 70's. This later retirement age filters right through the employment market with less jobs ultimately becoming available to the young.

I'm not sure when your wife went to university, but without support it is now impossible to not get in debt. The average cost for a year at uni is £22k, fees plus living cost. After tax, even before tax, you cannot earn nearly that with evening and holiday jobs.

I bet you're a right laugh at parties......

Off to bed had enough.

[Tengocity]

The thread took a (more) interesting turn after Nick's unnecessary foray in to literature!

I'm on the fence on this one. My parents weren't in a position to support me much financially and just did the best job they could as parents. I've done ok regardless.

However, I do look at what the situation is for the younger generation now and I would not want to be 18 now and deciding on whether to go to Uni or not, or finishing a degree and trying to get a career started, or later in my 20's thinking about how I might get on the property ladder. Each of those things is considerably harder, more competitive, or more expensive than 20 years ago for me.

If I was parent I don't know for sure what I'd do. But I'd like to think that I'd start a 'college fund' to be able to pay for my child's education, so that the decision on going to uni is not a financial one, but about what is right for them and their life.

And to be honest, if I can afford to run 3 cars then it's the least I can afford to do for them.

You could always choose not to give it to them if they pissed you off, not so easy to conjur it up in the future if you change your mind the other way.

[teaston]

Originally Posted by Tengocity

The thread took a (more) interesting turn after Nick's unnecessary foray in to literature!

I'm on the fence on this one. My parents weren't in a position to support me much financially and just did the best job they could as parents. I've done ok regardless.

However, I do look at what the situation is for the younger generation now and I would not want to be 18 now and deciding on whether to go to Uni or not, or finishing a degree and trying to get a career started, or later in my 20's thinking about how I might get on the property ladder. Each of those things is considerably harder, more competitive, or more expensive than 20 years ago for me.

If I was parent I don't know for sure what I'd do. But I'd like to think that I'd start a 'college fund' to be able to pay for my child's education, so that the decision on going to uni is not a financial one, but about what is right for them and their life.

And to be honest, if I can afford to run 3 cars then it's the least I can afford to do for them.

You could always choose not to give it to them if they pissed you off, not so easy to conjur it up in the future if you change your mind the other way.

But why pay out a lump of 10's of thousands of pounds of your money for their education when they could just wait until they're earning over £21k and then pay back a pittance each month?

[Tengocity]

Originally Posted by teaston

But why pay out a lump of 10's of thousands of pounds of your money for their education when they could just wait until they're earning over £21k and then pay back a pittance each month?

I don't have any kids, so this is a guess of course, but I'd think perhaps because you love them, and you want them to not have to worry about that stuff and get a great start to life, and that this would be more important than whatever I was sacrificing instead.

On a slightly different and less sarcastic note, if they're never going to earn enough to pay it back, then I'd question what the point of going in the first place is.

I do wonder if too many kids are doing mediocre degrees which don't help them in the slightest and just saddle them with a debt for nothing.

Fair enough if you're doing Medicine, Law, accountancy, engineering, science, or something genuinely academic, but many are not and they struggle to get meaningful careers and livelihoods.

[JustChris]

Originally Posted by Tengocity

I don't have any kids, so this is a guess of course, but I'd think perhaps because you love them, and you want them to not have to worry about that stuff and get a great start to life, and that this would be more important than whatever I was sacrificing instead.

On a slightly different and less sarcastic note, if they're never going to earn enough to pay it back, then I'd question what the point of going in the first place is.

I do wonder if too many kids are doing mediocre degrees which don't help them in the slightest and just saddle them with a debt for nothing.

Fair enough if you're doing Medicine, Law, accountancy, engineering, science, or something genuinely academic, but many are not and they struggle to get meaningful careers and livelihoods.

Originally Posted by Tengocity

I do wonder if too many kids are doing mediocre degrees which don't help them in the slightest and just saddle them with a debt for nothing.

.

Boom! This is why fees came into play due to far too many kids just looking for a laugh for 2-3 depending on how long they can string along their tutors to believe they are going to turn things around or take studies seriously.

Once again a few ruin it for those who were seriously interested in Uni level education.

[MaximusJ]

We disagreed on crypto but I hear what you're saying now Tengocity. I'm coming from a divorced family where money always been a struggle. So I didnt get a penny from my parents and got out of school with 30k in debt, but at least in the other pocket I got a MBA in accounting.

But i'm not one of those who were envying the other kids for their parental support. At 19, I had to manage my whole year's expenses with one lump sum payment of about 6500 every year for the next 6 years. That was a hell of a break it or make it lesson; but I made it. I promised myself to avoid this financial stress go my kids; even if I know it wasnt a decision that my parents took, properly speaking.

Now, 20 some years later, I know the true value of money and manage it wisely. That was for sure a tough early phase of my life, but I enjoy every bits of it now. I chose not to offer the same lessons to my kids. I know the lessons I learned HAD to be learned, but I had it the hard way. I adopt the "pay as you earn" type of thing. This is just as much rewarding for my kids as they feel like they're paying part of their stuff.

But same with me, they dont know that something's aside for them. They just know we are paying for the other part of their stuff, they just wont know where it comes from. All the cash gifts they get goes in there as well.

[Tengocity]

Originally Posted by JustChris

Boom! This is why fees came into play due to far too many kids just looking for a laugh for 2-3 depending on how long they can string along their tutors to believe they are going to turn things around or take studies seriously.

Once again a few ruin it for those who were seriously interested in Uni level education.

I think you're right about that if I look at my own situation. I just wanted to "be a student" for a few years in Edinburgh! All the courses I applied for were in Edinburgh, and I took the Heriot Watt offer as it was unconditional based on my highers results in 5th year, so I did next to know work in my last year of school.
So when I go to Edinburgh it was just a big adventure and little about studying.
Looking back now I've no idea how I actually scraped through with anything to show for it, and I've no idea sometimes how I've ended up where I am now!

If I was trying to do it all now I'd be screwed!

[stefan4]

kids do cost a hell of a lot to raise. I never got any financial help from my parents, I didn't expect it and they weren't in a position to do so. I made my own way in life and this has brought me to where I Am today, something I'm really proud of. Having said all that, if i had a 10 or 20 k boost when i was starting out (like some of my friends) that would have put my in a seriously stronger position than I am now, convinced it would have returned four fold. as such, I'm hoping to be able to give my kids 18k on their 18th birthday. Starting early, this should be achievable.

[teaston]

Originally Posted by Lobb

My only advice to the young people of today is to get private medical insurance.
The Priory charge £6,000 a week. Before you've seen the psychiatrist. ......

Couldn't one go to an NHS equivalent institute?

[JLR1969]

Originally Posted by Lobb

My only advice to the young people of today is to get private medical insurance.
The Priory charge £6,000 a week. Before you've seen the psychiatrist. ......

Or try and not get fcuked up in the first place

[JLR1969]

Originally Posted by Lobb

You could.

But I don't think you'd want to. You get some really, really ill people in them.

There's a closed ward in the Priory for the really serious cases. Fully secure. Only staff have access. Garden has fifteen foot high fence. As the patients aren't allowed out, you don't come into contact with them, but you can sometimes hear the screaming

Like Broadmoor but for those with money.

I know I have little digs which are just banter but that last sentence made my blood run cold.

I have no idea what you went through but seriously I wish you all the best really

[teaston]

Originally Posted by Lobb

You could.

But I don't think you'd want to. You get some really, really ill people in them.

There's a closed ward in the Priory for the really serious cases. Fully secure. Only staff have access. Garden has fifteen foot high fence. As the patients aren't allowed out, you don't come into contact with them, but you can sometimes hear the screaming

I saw on the news this week that the NHS are starting to take mental health issues more seriously, so hopefully private won't be so necessary in the future at some point.

[Tengocity]

Originally Posted by teaston

I saw on the news this week that the NHS are starting to take mental health issues more seriously, so hopefully private won't be so necessary in the future at some point.

Good luck with that then. I love your optimism!

Even the stuff it takes seriously it's not all that good at, except rationing services.

[JLR1969]

Originally Posted by Lobb

I believe Broadmoor is for the criminally insane. I'm not aware of any criminals in the Priory.

The majority of inpatients in the Priory, certainly when I was there, suffered depression, anxiety, Bi-polar. I guess those in the closed ward suffer with the more extreme illnesses such as paranoia and schizophrenia .

I am sure there are a lot of criminals in the Priory they are called business men they are just smarter at not getting caught

[JLR1969]

Originally Posted by Lobb

Unfortunately, the incidence of mental health problems that youngsters have is increasing. When I was in the Priory, I had a number of youngsters in my therapy groups. One lady in her early twenties had been raped by her uncle when she was eight, and then by another man when she was fifteen

There were a couple of young ladies in their late teens battling alcoholism

We must have left a fucked up world for our kids to grow up in....

I am not sure it's so different from when we were kids it's just now its recognised and has a name.

[teaston]

Originally Posted by Tengocity

Good luck with that then. I love your optimism!

Even the stuff it takes seriously it's not all that good at, except rationing services.

Well it's a step in the right direction at least!

Needs to be privatised really though.

[Goneinsixtyseconds]

Originally Posted by teaston

I saw on the news this week that the NHS are starting to take mental health issues more seriously, so hopefully private won't be so necessary in the future at some point.

They've been saying that for a few years now and nothing changes. My wife is the only psychologist in the psychosis early intervention team in Rotherham and this team has only seen cut after cut.

She is currently on maternity leave for 12 months and they don't even cover her position. The psychosis NHS team in Rotherham has not got even one psychologist right now. That is not taking mental health seriously.

[Goneinsixtyseconds]

Originally Posted by teaston

Well it's a step in the right direction at least!

Needs to be privatised really though.

Privatisation would make no difference, in fact probably make it worse. It's cheaper to drug people than spend time to actually help resolve things.

Words are meaningless when they are still asking the self same teams to save millions at the same time.