[SeanWRT]

The EVO improves flow by gaining volumetric efficiency, which is a even better thing to know than an enlarged piston diameter, because it means the EVO consumes less engine power.

Like said, VE also depends on load and rpm. The critical area in N55 application is 4-6k, where EVO seems to improve by much more than just 5% as logs show. Keep in mind 5% is only 120psi, whatever the corresponding flow is. By 5% difference, Bosch should mean the maximum flow, but the flow "where it counts" is more.

What kind of aggressive map that need more direct injected fuel than EVO can supply doesn't even need WMI's cooling/octane support? Silly maps. BTW, Meth can also support fueling, and up to some 22psi (cold dense air) on a stock pump system.

At the end of day, it's very obvious XDI bothers to comment only because EVO can destroy their sales which it should. Just let the market adjust.

[cookiesowns]

Originally Posted by SeanWRT

The EVO improves flow by gaining volumetric efficiency, which is a even better thing to know than an enlarged piston diameter, because it means the EVO consumes less engine power.

Like said, VE also depends on load and rpm. The critical area in N55 application is 4-6k, where EVO seems to improve by much more than just 5% as logs show. Keep in mind 5% is only 120psi, whatever the corresponding flow is. By 5% difference, Bosch should mean the maximum flow, but the flow "where it counts" is more.

What kind of aggressive map that need more direct injected fuel than EVO can supply doesn't even need WMI's cooling/octane support? Silly maps. BTW, Meth can also support fueling, and up to some 22psi (cold dense air) on a stock pump system.

At the end of day, it's very obvious XDI bothers to comment only because EVO can destroy their sales which it should. Just let the market adjust.

E85 requires much more fueling than pump gas due to lower energy density, but it’s knock resistance makes up for that. HPD5 Evo on a N55 with E85 won’t be enough to hit 21-23psi.

[Tricki]

Originally Posted by harkes

Supply and demand my friend

Lets hope demand slows and prices hit a spot which are more affordable for the second tier of demanders!!

[Munchi435i]

Originally Posted by Tricki

Lets hope demand slows and prices hit a spot which more affordable for the second tier of demanders!!

Agreed!!

If pricing were as follows sales would jump but supply and demand is a tricky beast!

XDI-35 = $1500

XDI-60 = $2000

Businesses are in business to make a profit at the end of the day.

Fingers crossed for a black Friday deal!

[ronanz]

Originally Posted by Munchi435i

Agreed!!

If pricing were as follows sales would jump but supply and demand is a tricky beast!

XDI-35 = $1500

XDI-60 = $2000

Businesses are in business to make a profit at the end of the day.

Fingers crossed for a black Friday deal!

Definitely possible if XDI where to sell them directly.

.

[XDI]

Originally Posted by SeanWRT

The EVO improves flow by gaining volumetric efficiency, which is a even better thing to know than an enlarged piston diameter, because it means the EVO consumes less engine power.

Like said, VE also depends on load and rpm. The critical area in N55 application is 4-6k, where EVO seems to improve by much more than just 5% as logs show. Keep in mind 5% is only 120psi, whatever the corresponding flow is. By 5% difference, Bosch should mean the maximum flow, but the flow "where it counts" is more.

What kind of aggressive map that need more direct injected fuel than EVO can supply doesn't even need WMI's cooling/octane support? Silly maps. BTW, Meth can also support fueling, and up to some 22psi (cold dense air) on a stock pump system.

At the end of day, it's very obvious XDI bothers to comment only because EVO can destroy their sales which it should. Just let the market adjust.

Good thought and true on EVO consuming less engine power ! The HDP5 on the N55 lobe consumes around 2-3kW, so the HDP5-EVO will (at same demanded delivery) consume 1.9-2.85kW. If you demand the 5% more flow that it is capable off, it will consume the same like the HDP5.
The XDI-HPFP35 consumes roughly the same like HDP5 at same demanded delivery, and then 3-4kW at full delivery (+36% flow). So 1kW more parasitic loss for 35% more flow.

And yes the market will split up between the guys that want to run a couple psi more on OEM turbo for cheap and the guys that want to support PS2 or later PS3 or other turbos or here in the USA higher Ethanol contents.
We are just trying to educate the people so they can make better choices. We want to avoid that they try the EVO pump with high expectations like they arose in the last 4 weeks, somebody said "the EVO has 1.2cmm where the XDI has 1.21cmm, just 1cmm off". In reality this is not even close but people considered it to be true.
Then they get disappointed on the dyno or the track and spend all the time and money again to change the pump a second time. As far as I know at least one customer has already swapped out the B58 pump against our XDI-HPFP35 because it didn't perform as hoped for.

Now everybody can make his own decision what his goals are and how much he wants to spend for it.

[XDI]

Originally Posted by ronanz

Definitely possible if XDI where to sell them directly.

.

Sorry but that will not happen so quick. We wouldn't be able to provide the support that is needed for each plattform.
It took 2yrs to get this product to work the way it does now. Much too new and too technical. A lot of different DI specific tuning know-how required to harness the full potential.
TTFS is doing a great job supporting all tuners and shops worldwide.

[ronanz]

Originally Posted by XDI

Sorry but that will not happen so quick. We wouldn't be able to provide the support that is needed for each plattform.
It took 2yrs to get this product to work the way it does now. Much too new and too technical. A lot of different DI specific tuning know-how required to harness the full potential.
TTFS is doing a great job supporting all tuners and shops worldwide.

Hmmmm...maybe, but...I'm 100% certain there's QUITE capable tuners on certain platforms (some world record holders) that are more than capable.

Just say'n...

.

[RSicks]

I think the bigger picture is now that N55 owners have proven that the B58 pump fits with slight fabrication... when new companies come out with a B58 upgraded HPFP (as a few have already started talking about) - this will create some competition. With these companies looking into creating a B58 pump, this will now give N55 owners more of a choice for the best pump for the best price.

[SeanWRT]

Originally Posted by XDI

Good thought and true on EVO consuming less engine power ! The HDP5 on the N55 lobe consumes around 2-3kW, so the HDP5-EVO will (at same demanded delivery) consume 1.9-2.85kW. If you demand the 5% more flow that it is capable off, it will consume the same like the HDP5.
The XDI-HPFP35 consumes roughly the same like HDP5 at same demanded delivery, and then 3-4kW at full delivery (+36% flow). So 1kW more parasitic loss for 35% more flow.

And yes the market will split up between the guys that want to run a couple psi more on OEM turbo for cheap and the guys that want to support PS2 or later PS3 or other turbos or here in the USA higher Ethanol contents.
We are just trying to educate the people so they can make better choices. We want to avoid that they try the EVO pump with high expectations like they arose in the last 4 weeks, somebody said "the EVO has 1.2cmm where the XDI has 1.21cmm, just 1cmm off". In reality this is not even close but people considered it to be true.
Then they get disappointed on the dyno or the track and spend all the time and money again to change the pump a second time. As far as I know at least one customer has already swapped out the B58 pump against our XDI-HPFP35 because it didn't perform as hoped for.

Now everybody can make his own decision what his goals are and how much he wants to spend for it.

XDI, pardon me I've been always harsh on vendors, any vendors.

First thing to mention - If pump is using 2-3kw, engine needs 4-6kw, that's like 8-9 HP, or 1 psi. The vehicle auxiliary system is extremely low efficiency, conveying engine power, which is partially why 48V tech is needed to "improve efficiency" without even directly driving the car, and just adding wheel horsepower, carrying those burdens.

Back to topic, I wasn't trying to discount XDI pump as a more capable pump. It's just as misunderstood as the idea that EVO is only 5% better than original.

My points have been:
1) From logs, EVO flows much more than 5% at around 5k where it counts. It significantly helps holding rail pressure where it's needed.
2) Bigger turbo and/or high ethanol build require meth injection anyway, which decrease the need for more pump capacity.

Again that doesn't discount the fact that XDI could be a much stronger pump according to your data. Those points are more of N55 inherent issues - how much more fueling is actually needed before WMI becomes a must. From my experience, in many cases, octane is a much more urgent issue which calls for WMI. Only when you add excessive ethanol, fueling restrictions become more apparent. But again E40-50 stock turbo maximum boost, you're more turbo limited than fueling with EVO pump. Boost dialed up with bigger turbo, meth+evo can handle it.

At the end of day, 22+psi build with ethanol is the place where the XDI pump fits. However, why are we made feel like every N55 needs one of your pumps?

Also, it's not appropriate for you to refer to EVO camp as the guys doing it "for cheap". OEM parts have high level of refinement though sometimes are under-engineered to the aftermarket power application. But certainly there is no questioning about its quality. Accordingly, OEM part already carries an extremely hefty premium, which by the way is still half cost when new of XDI pump.

I'm anything but cheap, I paid good money for every mod, only wishing they come higher quality at a higher cost. I really was disgusted to see N55 fell down to become a cheap platform like its predecessor. (S55 will follow soon).

I for one should thank XDI for making the pump upgrade happen, but the way this 'new HPFP option' is discounted here is not graceful. As someone mentioned earlier, you can open a new thread marketing your product and "educating" your audience.

[T_H_O_M_A_S]

https://datazap.me/u/thomas/log-1556464014

i guess as far as you can go with b58hpfp and ps2 pwg turbo .
pls share your comments below

[my335i403]

Originally Posted by T_H_O_M_A_S

https://datazap.me/u/thomas/log-1556464014

i guess as far as you can go with b58hpfp and ps2 pwg turbo .
pls share your comments below

I have a 2014 335 6mt, currently running with bolt ons and stage 2 93 octane bm3 tune

I want to upgrade turbo to ps2 but we dont have ethanol where I am so I want to Stay ON Pump 93 Gas. so my question is, if I upgrade to ps2 turbo which- with stock hpfp I could only run it to 15-16 psi... if I use a b58 hpfp will I be able to go up to 19 psi? For me that would be well well worth it

the way I see it I wouldn't be able to hit the 22 plus psi BUT would be a worth It upgrade to see more of the ps2's potential.

[my335i403]

Originally Posted by my335i403

I have a 2014 335 6mt, currently running with bolt ons and stage 2 93 octane bm3 tune

I want to upgrade turbo to ps2 but we dont have ethanol where I am so I want to Stay ON Pump 93 Gas. so my question is, if I upgrade to ps2 turbo which- with stock hpfp I could only run it to 15-16 psi... if I use a b58 hpfp will I be able to go up to 19 psi? For me that would be well well worth it

the way I see it I wouldn't be able to hit the 22 plus psi BUT would be a worth It upgrade to see more of the ps2's potential.

My Car is EWG, not sure if that makes a difference for my purpose

[SeanWRT]

Originally Posted by my335i403

I have a 2014 335 6mt, currently running with bolt ons and stage 2 93 octane bm3 tune

I want to upgrade turbo to ps2 but we dont have ethanol where I am so I want to Stay ON Pump 93 Gas. so my question is, if I upgrade to ps2 turbo which- with stock hpfp I could only run it to 15-16 psi... if I use a b58 hpfp will I be able to go up to 19 psi? For me that would be well well worth it

the way I see it I wouldn't be able to hit the 22 plus psi BUT would be a worth It upgrade to see more of the ps2's potential.

Octane is a more immediate restriction. You won't be able to hit 19psi(up top) with whatever turbo or pump in place, not even close. 15-16psi at top end on a cool day would be a stretch already. If it's an M2, then an extra 1-2psi or so are allowed thanks to slightly better manifold.

But if you have access to race gas or Europe RON99, a different story. You'll be able to do 19psi no issue.

People use cheap ways(ethanol) to circumvent octane issue, but it comes with life inconvenience and a dedicated tune for it.

Always remember, that octane is the first and biggest issue to pump gas user, especially in western USA.

[Munchi435i]

Originally Posted by SeanWRT

Octane is a more immediate restriction. You won't be able to hit 19psi(up top) with whatever turbo or pump in place, not even close. 15-16psi at top end on a cool day would be a stretch already. If it's an M2, then an extra 1-2psi or so are allowed thanks to slightly better manifold.

But if you have access to race gas or Europe RON99, a different story. You'll be able to do 19psi no issue.

People use cheap ways(ethanol) to circumvent octane issue, but it comes with life inconvenience and a dedicated tune for it.

Always remember, that octane is the first and biggest issue to pump gas user, especially in western USA.

Would using octane booster to reach 95 or greater be a good choice with stock fueling and EWG PS2?

Also, 15-16psi at top end isn't a stretch since I'm holding 16psi up top with 93 octane and no issues. Granted I have a custom map but my goal would be 18-19psi. I belive the PS2 OTS map from mhd targets 18psi but my rail pressure just won't hold that and now I'm curious if increasing octane to 96 or 99 would be of any benefit to allow me to use that map??

[SeanWRT]

Originally Posted by Munchi435i

Would using octane booster to reach 95 or greater be a good choice with stock fueling and EWG PS2?

Also, 15-16psi at top end isn't a stretch since I'm holding 16psi up top with 93 octane and no issues. Granted I have a custom map but my goal would be 18-19psi. I belive the PS2 OTS map from mhd targets 18psi but my rail pressure just won't hold that and now I'm curious if increasing octane to 96 or 99 would be of any benefit to allow me to use that map??

Octane booster will help, significantly. But your exhaust pipe will turn orange which is none reversible, if you use it in long term.

BTW, Doing 18-19psi on pump gas is possible even with stock HPFP. Check my G Power build thread. There're a few brilliant log (RON98=AKI93) showing 19psi top end under IAT of 110F. Best log any N55 can ever see.

It's not really all about fueling, to be frank.

[my335i403]

I want to add ps2 ewg... I want to see the most out of it, but i only have 93 oct... is the b58 fuel pump worth the extra 300 or so or should i just get the most i can with stock fuel pump?

I am not hung up on numbers in the sense that i have to be pushing 19 psi, i just wanna know if i upgrade to pure stage 2 turbo, should i do this pump upgrade or go another route?

[my335i403]

I don’t care if in the end I’m at 16 psi, but if this pump will make it safer than that’s worth it too.

I want to upgrade my turbo... iam under the impression i can do that on stock fueling systemm but just wont see the most out of it.
I could spend a small amount more and fit a b58 hpfp and get a little more out of upgding the turbo

[my335i403]

Right? Or do i have to add methanol? I would rather not have to do this on a daily driver

[my335i403]

I would rather be on 93

[Munchi435i]

Originally Posted by my335i403

I don’t care if in the end I’m at 16 psi, but if this pump will make it safer than that’s worth it too.

I want to upgrade my turbo... iam under the impression i can do that on stock fueling systemm but just wont see the most out of it.
I could spend a small amount more and fit a b58 hpfp and get a little more out of upgding the turbo

Yes you can run the upgraded turbo with stock fueling. That's what I'm currently doing and my car is also a daily driver. So far I have about 5k miles on the PS2 with no issues but I'm trying to run more boost lol

[Munchi435i]

Originally Posted by SeanWRT

Octane booster will help, significantly. But your exhaust pipe will turn orange which is none reversible, if you use it in long term.

BTW, Doing 18-19psi on pump gas is possible even with stock HPFP. Check my G Power build thread. There're a few brilliant log (RON98=AKI93) showing 19psi top end under IAT of 110F. Best log any N55 can ever see.

It's not really all about fueling, to be frank.

Didn't know about the octane booster making exhaust orange but I can see that happening since the spark plugs also turn orange.

What else besides fueling could it be?