[Dippydo]

Originally Posted by DVC

I've seen several on these forums mention ride quality issues or bottoming out with lowering springs and OEM bump stops. Typically, they are using aftermarket springs of 1"+ drop that are at a spring rate similar to OEM. It seems logical to me that a similar spring rate, with less travel range would result in this...

That's a whole different topic with another variable. Most lowering springs are not "close" to OEM hence the firmer ride and better handling. Yes I would agree that if you lower your car with a spring that is the same or close to the same spring rate then you have a chance of that, but again we are talking about Dinan that claims to stiffen the ride and also keep in mind only lowers the car by 3/4" (20mm).

[vip]

Originally Posted by Tditty

oh, not that low...i have a 335 xdrive that i used regular H&r sport springs. i think its like a 1.2 inch drop..

Is yours a sportline 335 or modern/luxury?

[Tditty]

I have an msport but it's a xdrive which is the same height as the base. All xdrives have same suspension.

[DVC]

Originally Posted by Dippydo

That's a whole different topic with another variable. Most lowering springs are or not "close" tois not a factor OEM hence the firmer ride and better handling. Yes I would agree that if you lower your car with a spring that is the same or close to the same spring rate then you have a chance of that, but again we are talking about Dinan that claims to stiffen the ride and also keep in mind only lowers the car by 3/4" (20mm).

Not a different topic - I'm responding to your post indicating that revising bump stops to retain full suspension travel is not a factor in ride quality / bottoming out when using typical lowering springs.
Most of the lowering springs I see guys going with for their F30s on these forums are either H&R (Sport or Super Sport) or Eibach - both of which are close to OEM sport springs in terms of spring rate. Hence the ride quality / bottoming out issues that I mentioned.
The Dinan kit is different not just because of the 30% firmer spring rate (there may be other similar springs available somewhere, e.g. M Performance springs) but also because of the revised bump stops. That is why the ride is still OEM-like quality, and why they charge more than H&R does for just a set of springs.

[momo3605]

Originally Posted by Dippydo

That's a whole different topic with another variable. Most lowering springs are not "close" to OEM hence the firmer ride and better handling. Yes I would agree that if you lower your car with a spring that is the same or close to the same spring rate then you have a chance of that, but again we are talking about Dinan that claims to stiffen the ride and also keep in mind only lowers the car by 3/4" (20mm).

You should go through and read the posts of people who have installed H&R sports or Eibach Prokit with stock shocks. Many say that it feels just like stock, and a few say the Eibach Prokit in particular feels softer than stock.

It feels like H&R and Eibach just didn't engineer their springs properly. I think it's strange that they have issues, but maybe BMW/s aren't their top priority for springs. I think they are more popular among japanese brands.

[momo3605]

Originally Posted by DVC

Not a different topic - I'm responding to your post indicating that revising bump stops to retain full suspension travel is not a factor in ride quality / bottoming out when using typical lowering springs.
Most of the lowering springs I see guys going with for their F30s on these forums are either H&R (Sport or Super Sport) or Eibach - both of which are close to OEM sport springs in terms of spring rate. Hence the ride quality / bottoming out issues that I mentioned.
The Dinan kit is different not just because of the 30% firmer spring rate (there may be other similar springs available somewhere, e.g. M Performance springs) but also because of the revised bump stops. That is why the ride is still OEM-like quality, and why they charge more than H&R does for just a set of springs.

So while I agree with you about the performance improvement with Dinan, I think there's some misunderstanding about bumpstops. While they do help, they are at the end of the travel range. Unless you hit really bad bumps, you should not hit the bumpstops. H&R and Eibach actually ship their springs with revised bumpstops for other cars. Eibachs Focus ST kit comes with bumpstops for the same price as our spring-only kit. Basically my point is that the bumpstops are not the reason Dinan charges more, and also not the reason that the H&Rs and Eibachs ride so bad. Bad spring rates is probably the biggest issue) along with too low of a ride

[DVC]

Originally Posted by momo3605

So while I agree with you about the performance improvement with Dinan, I think there's some misunderstanding about bumpstops. While they do help, they are at the end of the travel range . Unless you hit really bad bumps, you should not hit the bumpstops. H&R and Eibach actually ship their springs with revised bumpstops for other cars. Eibachs Focus ST kit comes with bumpstops for the same price as our spring-only kit. Basically my point is that the bumpstops are not the reason Dinan charges more, and also not the reason that the H&Rs and Eibachs ride so bad. Bad spring rates is probably the biggest issue) along with too low of a ride

The way I understand it, the Dinan revised bump stops extend the range of travel, which of course helps to improve ride quality when lowering.

[f30er]

Somebody just order these for their xdrive and tell us if it works!! Any volunteers??

[Tditty]

Originally Posted by f30er

Somebody just order these for their xdrive and tell us if it works!! Any volunteers??

It's not ready for the Xdrive yet.

[gmazzu]

Dinan if you are reading please get the Xdrive spring out ASAP, waiting to pay and install on my 335 xdrive with DHP.

[Tditty]

Originally Posted by gmazzu

Dinan if you are reading please get the Xdrive spring out ASAP, waiting to pay and install on my 335 xdrive with DHP.

Hahaha yeah! That's goes double for me. Lol

[momo3605]

Originally Posted by DVC

The way I understand it, the Dinan revised bump stops extend the range of travel, which of course helps to improve ride quality when lowering.

When are you getting your springs installed??

[DVC]

Originally Posted by momo3605

When are you getting your springs installed??

As soon as possible. The springs arrived Friday, so hopefully this week if I can get an appointment and block out some time at work.

[Dippydo]

Originally Posted by momo3605

You should go through and read the posts of people who have installed H&R sports or Eibach Prokit with stock shocks. Many say that it feels just like stock, and a few say the Eibach Prokit in particular feels softer than stock.

It feels like H&R and Eibach just didn't engineer their springs properly. I think it's strange that they have issues, but maybe BMW/s aren't their top priority for springs. I think they are more popular among japanese brands.

But that is the point I am making. T said he was bottoming out. Bottoming out is hitting the bottom of the shock not hitting the bump stops. As you posted to DVC, with bump stops in place, to bottom out is difficult. A person can hit the bump stop and that is ok because that is what they are for to prevent bottoming out. You should not be hitting them on a regular basis but occasionally is ok. Typically if you lower a car and you use the factory stops, you are suppose to shave them down a little bit. Any shop that lowers vehicles will know this. Even then you will still not "bottom out" unless you hit something as I pointed out, your least worry is your shock. That is my point. Maybe I am being too technical and the others are not technical enough. I have read countless posts here and others where people say the spring swap made the ride firmer and or bouncier. I have not read all posts, but I have not come across one that says it rides like stock. Eibach I would agree with your statement, but H&R does focus on the European market with BMW, Audi and VW.


DVC, if you are constantly hitting the bump stops, then I can see why Dinan's "improved progressive" bump stops will help, BUT they will not improve ride quality in general because again at 3/4" drop you should not be riding on your bump stops or even hitting them on a regular basis SO they will not even be in play 99.9% of the time. I lowered cars as much as 3" on stock struts, shaved the bump stops in half and never hit them. The way dinan describes the bump stops on their product page I can understand why you think they are a selling feature. But coming from a product development background, their description is pure marketing. The chances are they are shorter than stock so it gives you more travel before hitting them, but your shop should do this regardless. For everyday driving they don't do squat. A bump stop is an emergency device to keep your shock from bottoming out, because if you bottom out your shock will blow out. Maybe not on the first time, but it will not last long. If you constantly hit your bump stops that as well over a short time will blow your shock. Especially a stock strut where you are decreasing the travel by 1-2" normally and compressing it to the point there is just 1.5-2" (typical bump stop height) of chamber left is too much pressure for the seals to happen on a regular basis.


Think we this topic to death. Just trying to help.

[Tditty]

Originally Posted by Dippydo

But that is the point I am making. T said he was bottoming out. Bottoming out is hitting the bottom of the shock not hitting the bump stops. As you posted to DVC, with bump stops in place, to bottom out is difficult. A person can hit the bump stop and that is ok because that is what they are for to prevent bottoming out. You should not be hitting them on a regular basis but occasionally is ok. Typically if you lower a car and you use the factory stops, you are suppose to shave them down a little bit. Any shop that lowers vehicles will know this. Even then you will still not "bottom out" unless you hit something as I pointed out, your least worry is your shock. That is my point. Maybe I am being too technical and the others are not technical enough. I have read countless posts here and others where people say the spring swap made the ride firmer and or bouncier. I have not read all posts, but I have not come across one that says it rides like stock. Eibach I would agree with your statement, but H&R does focus on the European market with BMW, Audi and VW.


DVC, if you are constantly hitting the bump stops, then I can see why Dinan's "improved progressive" bump stops will help, BUT they will not improve ride quality in general because again at 3/4" drop you should not be riding on your bump stops or even hitting them on a regular basis SO they will not even be in play 99.9% of the time. I lowered cars as much as 3" on stock struts, shaved the bump stops in half and never hit them. The way dinan describes the bump stops on their product page I can understand why you think they are a selling feature. But coming from a product development background, their description is pure marketing. The chances are they are shorter than stock so it gives you more travel before hitting them, but your shop should do this regardless. For everyday driving they don't do squat. A bump stop is an emergency device to keep your shock from bottoming out, because if you bottom out your shock will blow out. Maybe not on the first time, but it will not last long. If you constantly hit your bump stops that as well over a short time will blow your shock. Especially a stock strut where you are decreasing the travel by 1-2" normally and compressing it to the point there is just 1.5-2" (typical bump stop height) of chamber left is too much pressure for the seals to happen on a regular basis.


Think we this topic to death. Just trying to help.

So if my tires are not rubbing, because I checked and there was plenty room also, what was happening with the h&r springs. Because like I said... Every medium to big bump the car felt like it was gonna fall apart.

[Dippydo]

Originally Posted by Tditty

So if my tires are not rubbing, because I checked and there was plenty room also, what was happening with the h&r springs. Because like I said... Every medium to big bump the car felt like it was gonna fall apart.

You are hitting the bump stops. When you hit them, it jolts the car because it stops the travel immediately. If you were running the stock ones, like I mentioned, shops that lower vehicles typically will shave them down to give you more travel. Also as I mentioned in my first reply to you, living in NY is another world because the roads are so horrible there and I would not doubt you hitting them there on a lowered car. Should it be everyday? Not that I saw driving around but I could see some roads where that would have happened because I even cringed in a stock riding car.

[mhanism]

Originally Posted by jetbill

Waited a few days.

My front are non- OE size, the 245/35/19 instead of 225's overall diameter is about 1/4 inch less which would offer a variation in others ride height measurements.

My M-Sport splitter doesn't scrape much, since driving on the H&R I'm used to approaching on angles. Then again NJ roads are a bit worse than FL.

Tracked the car again today, was a huge improvement. More
Mechanical grip for sure.

I tried some camber plates last week and they were great, just had to send them back for some tweaking. I was able to dial in 3 degrees if front camber and 12 degrees castor. These in combination with my R-Comps (265/35/18 on 18x10) and Dinan springs the car was a beast.

Appreciate it Jetbill! How do the Dinan springs specifically compare to the HR? And just to confirm, you're using the stock dampers - M Sport Susp?

My primary concern is achieving improved handling, while also maintaining a fairly comfortable ride + OEM/factory quality in daily conditions.

I had a 2013 Jetta GLI, and went with VWR springs which were also "designed" to work with the stock shocks, and while the performance (cornering, body roll) did improve, the rear got significantly harsher for passengers, and the overall quality of the ride during normal driving conditions were markedly worse. The look was great as the stock wheel gap was extreme, the fronts were lowered by 1 1/8" and the rear by about 1.625". I also got stiffer rear shock pads for the rear to help even out reverse rake - which may have contributed to the harsher ride.

Based on the reviews so far, the Dinan's appear much more suited to work with factory dampers: the addition of custom bump stops, minimal lowering (20mm - 3/4") and Dinan's reputation for quality engineering. Also as you mentioned, the rear springs rates did not appear to be too impacted vs. stock.

I have a 335i M Sport, RWD, non-DHP, w/ the 18" 400M wheels/staggered.

Appreciate any and all feedback. Thanks!!

[momo3605]

Originally Posted by mhanism

Appreciate it Jetbill! How do the Dinan springs specifically compare to the HR? And just to confirm, you're using the stock dampers - M Sport Susp?

My primary concern is achieving improved handling, while also maintaining a fairly comfortable ride + OEM/factory quality in daily conditions.

I had a 2013 Jetta GLI, and went with VWR springs which were also "designed" to work with the stock shocks, and while the performance (cornering, body roll) did improve, the rear got significantly harsher for passengers, and the overall quality of the ride during normal driving conditions were markedly worse. The look was great as the stock wheel gap was extreme, the fronts were lowered by 1 1/8" and the rear by about 1.625". I also got stiffer rear shock pads for the rear to help even out reverse rake - which may have contributed to the harsher ride.

Based on the reviews so far, the Dinan's appear much more suited to work with factory dampers: the addition of custom bump stops, minimal lowering (20mm - 3/4") and Dinan's reputation for quality engineering. Also as you mentioned, the rear springs rates did not appear to be too impacted vs. stock.

I have a 335i M Sport, RWD, non-DHP, w/ the 18" 400M wheels/staggered.

Appreciate any and all feedback. Thanks!!

I think jetbill posted that he had forward rake, as in 1 inch front, and 0.5 inch rear. This seems to be significantly less than the VWR springs you had before. I rode in VIP's car for unfortunately too short of a time, but there was absolutely no harshness. Drove very much like stock at low speeds. Didn't get a chance to take any hard corners, so I still can't say how the performance has improved

[DVC]

Originally Posted by Dippydo

But that is the point I am making. T said he was bottoming out. Bottoming out is hitting the bottom of the shock not hitting the bump stops. As you posted to DVC, with bump stops in place, to bottom out is difficult. A person can hit the bump stop and that is ok because that is what they are for to prevent bottoming out. You should not be hitting them on a regular basis but occasionally is ok. Typically if you lower a car and you use the factory stops, you are suppose to shave them down a little bit. Any shop that lowers vehicles will know this. Even then you will still not "bottom out" unless you hit something as I pointed out, your least worry is your shock. That is my point. Maybe I am being too technical and the others are not technical enough. I have read countless posts here and others where people say the spring swap made the ride firmer and or bouncier. I have not read all posts, but I have not come across one that says it rides like stock. Eibach I would agree with your statement, but H&R does focus on the European market with BMW, Audi and VW.


DVC, if you are constantly hitting the bump stops, then I can see why Dinan's "improved progressive" bump stops will help, BUT they will not improve ride quality in general because again at 3/4" drop you should not be riding on your bump stops or even hitting them on a regular basis SO they will not even be in play 99.9% of the time. I lowered cars as much as 3" on stock struts, shaved the bump stops in half and never hit them. The way dinan describes the bump stops on their product page I can understand why you think they are a selling feature. But coming from a product development background, their description is pure marketing. The chances are they are shorter than stock so it gives you more travel before hitting them, but your shop should do this regardless. For everyday driving they don't do squat. A bump stop is an emergency device to keep your shock from bottoming out, because if you bottom out your shock will blow out. Maybe not on the first time, but it will not last long. If you constantly hit your bump stops that as well over a short time will blow your shock. Especially a stock strut where you are decreasing the travel by 1-2" normally and compressing it to the point there is just 1.5-2" (typical bump stop height) of chamber left is too much pressure for the seals to happen on a regular basis.


Think we this topic to death. Just trying to help.

I think we're all pretty much on the same page with this at this point.

By "improve ride quality" I just meant that extending the range of travel (before hitting the bump stops is even an issue) keeps the ride civil... Not that the Dinan revised bump stops are doing something magical. I have no doubt that a quality installer who knows exactly how much to trim OEM bump stops could get a similar result. But I like the idea that Dinan did all this ahead of time, and is offering a kit with springs and bump stops engineered and tested to improve handling (while maintaining a civil ride) specifically for our cars... no trial and error or messing around needed - just install it and forget it.

[mhanism]

Originally Posted by momo3605

I think jetbill posted that he had forward rake, as in 1 inch front, and 0.5 inch rear. This seems to be significantly less than the VWR springs you had before. I rode in VIP's car for unfortunately too short of a time, but there was absolutely no harshness. Drove very much like stock at low speeds. Didn't get a chance to take any hard corners, so I still can't say how the performance has improved

Oh right on! And you guys are both from the Bay Area. Where about's are you guys?

[vip]

Originally Posted by mhanism

Oh right on! And you guys are both from the Bay Area. Where about's are you guys?

I'm in Fremont!

[mhanism]

Originally Posted by vip

I'm in Fremont!

Right on VIP! So how's the daily ride and comfort been with the Dinan springs? Any issues with the forward rake? Visually or otherwise?